We all have our reasons to turn to illegal download in Germany. For some it’s about binge-watching the latest HBO hit series, for others it’s about getting their hands on a rare 1991 version of the Star-Wars trilogy. Whatever it is, you might have gotten away with it in your home country. However, illegally downloading copyrighted content in Germany is severely condemned by law and is frequently enforced by private law firms who send cease and desist letters.
If you are reading those lines, you are probably holding an Abmahnung letter from a German lawyer asking you to pay for compensation. Do not: panic: this guide will reply to the many questions you have right now.
Here is everything you want to know on how to respond to a warning letter for illegally downloading copyrighted content in Germany.
Caught torrenting & streaming in Germany: TL;DR
What follows a long guide on the topic. Here are the main learnings and action points.
- When using torrent clients, it’s the uploading/sharing to other users on the same node that is punishable by law.
- Private practices have specialized in dealing with copyrighting infringments. They use special technolgoy to identify you, with the help of your ISP. This is permitted is Germany and not very regulated..
- Not all cease and desist letters you receive are real. Some are just scams. Check the authenticity of the letter first.
- The letter will be very threatening, list big numbers and big consequences. This is to pressure into paying right away without asking questions.
- Don’t ever sign and pay right away!
- Instead, use a specialized mediation service to get you out of this situation. They will help you reduce the fine and handle negotiations (in English). Lawyers are also an option but it usually more costly & more stressful.
- Using a VPN in Germany is usually a good idea to avoid this situation in the future.
Read on for more details and feel free to leave a comment if you have a question.
Bastien
Illegal download of copyrighted material in Germany – What you should know:
What am I really guilty of ?
German laws concerning file-sharing are pretty strict and clearly condemn any kind of file sharing activity related to copyrighted content. While both download and upload are condemned by law, it’s in reality the uploading part of the process that will be rewarded with a warning letter. Using services like torrent clients makes you automatically share the file you are downloading. This is why torrent and other P2P clients users receive a lot of letters from German lawyers.
Since April 2017, users of illegal streaming services (also broadcasting of live events) can also get in trouble because of a decision from the European Court of Justice. It established (here) that users of such services are indeed acting unlawfully. However, unlike P2P, it’s very difficult to identify users of such streaming platforms as IP adresses are often not stored by these platforms in the long-term, making the enforcement unlikely. Only premium users can easily identified.
On the document, you might see a reference to the set of laws dealing with copyright infringement in Germany; “Urheberrechtsgesetz” or “UrhG”. The article making it illegal is § 19a UrhG.
Who is responsible and who should pay?
German courts have stated that the owner of the internet access is in theory responsible for any wrong-doings happening on that network. They are responsible for securing it so other people don’t use it to download copyrighted content in Germany. This might bring up tensions if you are living in a WG and it’s not your name on the internet provider’s contract. In that case, the owner can “discharge” the fault onto the real culprit to be cleared of all charges if necessary.
How did they could identify me and find my address?
Those German law firms sending warning letters usually hire specialized third-party services that are scanning P2P nodes and clients, recording IP adresses that are currently downloading illegally in Germany. They are then authorized by law to ask your internet provider in Germany to disclose any information linked to that IP adress. This is how they obtained your private details.
Again, this is why law enforcement is really much more difficult to apply for illegal streaming services users. IP adresses are not stored on servers on the long-run and if the police should request a list, it’s only after a considerable amount of time. Beware however premium users; if you are paying a fee on one of those platforms, your IP will definitely be stored on the server, thereby increasing the risks of getting caught.
If you want to protect your traffic and use all services privately, you can get a VPN in Germany that will hide everything from anyone else. You can use NordVPN for example, which often considered one of the bests out there, especially since streaming works well with it and you connect up to 6 devices with one account (switch to English in the footer if needed).
Do they really have the right to claim so much? Can it really go to court?
There is no clear set of rules that puts a figure for infringements. The figure is entirely up to them within a certain range. We will see later how it is possible to bargain it down a little. Although they do threaten to take this to court, it’s relatively quite rare it happens. It mostly an argument to scare you into paying fast and without asking any questions.
However, make sure to see the difference between the different fees mentioned in this document. There are fees for sending you this Abmahnung, the fine mentioned as repair for their clients (more details on that later in the post). Also note that a law passed in 2013 should limit Abmahnung and legal claim fees to 150€ & 450€ respectively.
Offense repairs on streaming cases are much lower, making it less profitable for law firms to pursue; legal claim fees remain the same as for P2P cases but the fine per film can only be 5 to 10€.
Is this a real German law firm and not a scam? Do they really work with the copyright holders?
Now this is a little tricky because it is true that some scam letters (e.g from non-existing “Kroner & Kollegen” law firm) have been sent around and they are not entitled to represent the copyright holder. However, most often than not, the warning letter for illegally downloading copyrighted content is a real one coming from a real law firm who represents company like Viacom, Sony, 20th Century Fox, etc.
Here are some law firms sending cease and desist letters in Germany (hat-tip to Raychenon.com):
Auffenberg, Petzhold, Witte; Baumgarten & Brandt; Bindhart , Fiedler, Zerbe; CSR; Daniel Sebastian; Denecke Haxthausen & Partner; Fareds; Johannes Rübenach; Kornmeier & Patner; Lihl; Lutz Schroeder; Marcus Meier; Marko Schiek; Negele; Nümann und Lang; Paulus; Philipp Marquort; Rainer Munderloh; Rasch; Reichelt, Klute, Aßmann; Sasse und Patner; Schalast & Patner; Scheuermann,Westerhoff, Strittmatter; Schutt, Waetke; SKW Schwarz; U+C; Vahrenwald & Kretschmer; Waldorf Frommer; WeSaveYourCopyrights; Winterstein; Zimmermann & Decker.
How to spot a fake cease and desist letter for copyright infringement in Germany
Beware of the following signs, they can be pointers. In doubt, always consult with a professional.
- You only get an email: Also this is possible is some other field of law, illegal file sharing cases always come by post.
- It doesn’t come with a cease and desist letter: If it’s only asking for money with obscure legal jargon, it’s worthless,
- Fictitious law firm or no contact details to be found.
- A bank account located outside of Germany.
- The copyrighted material is not explicitly mentioned or described, nor is their client clearly named.
Rule number 1: Don’t panic and don’t send anything back
What is this “Unterlassungserklärung” document and what should I do with it?
Together with the warning letter establishing your identity and the content, there is another document called “Unterlassungserklärung“. This is the German equivalent to a cease and desist letter that the law firm wants you to sign to prove that you recognize yourself to be guilty of the accusations. Do not sign this document and do not send it back! By doing so, you would give more legal ground against you and would have to pay.
How are fees structured? What is the legal basis behind them?
Law firms in Germany are entitled by law to claim compensation on behalf of their clients for the infringement. The total number you might see on your letter is based on 3 different legal concepts:
- Costs based on the cease and desist order (Unterlassungsansprüche)
- Costs based on the actual compensation itself (Schadensersatzansprüche)
- Costs based on processing fees involved in dealing with your case (Aufwendungsersatzansprüche)
Working under the assumption that a signed cease and desist letter will prevent further infringements by the culprit, the law firm will generally only press compensation and reimbursement charges.
Together, these generally amount to around about 1.000€ per file. The processing fees are
calculated based on the compensation and cease and desist charges, while also being regulated by the German lawyers remuneration act (Rechtsanwaltsvergütungsgesetz, RVG). As a rule, the processing fees typically end up in a range included between 100€ & 300€.
Here is a example based on real-life practices from a well known law firm. In most cases:
- The total number is 935,8€.
- 700€ is for compensation.
- 235€ is for processing fees.
Now tell me: what can I do about this warning letter
There are different courses of action you can take at this point and i guess it depends on how bold you are and how good you are dealing with a possibly nerve-racking situation.
1- Pay-up right away
Let’s be honest now: those letters are an attempt at scaring you off and pressuring you into paying the full amount. This is even more impressive for a foreigner that doesn’t understand German completely. You shouldn’t panic and pay-up without asking any questions as there is room for negotiation. After all, you have to remember that it is not the government sending you those letters; the fine hasn’t been set by law.
2- Do nothing
While curling yourself in a ball and hoping that it will go away might not seem like the mature and adult thing to do, this reaction might still have a few arguments for it. Reacting this way is basically counting on the weaknesses of the system; those German law firms are very busy you see. They send hundred of thousands of warning letters a year to the average Joe for illegally downloading movies in Germany. They know very well that they won’t be able to handle each individual case manually so they might no simply follow-up, should you not reply to their first Abmahnung.
Then again, there is also a good chance that you might be part of the chosen ones for whom it doesn’t go away. If they do follow-up, additional legal fees might occur and it can be enforced. This is a risk you take if you pick this option.
Doing nothing is a viable option but it will often back-fire at you
3- Hire a lawyer
They come at you with legal weaponry? It’s then maybe time to gear up with some of your own and get in touch with a lawyer. Judging from the cases i have heard around me and in forums around the internet, this seems to be a popular option. Sure, it’s not cheap but you might in turn save hundreds of euros for negotiating a cheaper fine or even not paying it all.
What a lawyer will do is to send a modified cease and desist letter in your behalf that basically says that you are sorry for what happened but you still don’t recognize that you are guilty and that you won’t do that in the future.
Fees for doing so with German lawyers specialized in copyright infringement cases can vary, but you have to pay costs upfront without any guarantee.
4- Use a mediation service
All options listed before are all valid and should be carefully considered. However, they come with one drawback: you spend a fair chunk of cash, time or stress without any certainty on the legal outcome of your case.
Another option could be to turn to a mediation service like the one provided by Abmahnungshilfe. A platform like this is specializing in reducing the amount of the claim. They work with expert mediators and lawyers in
this field of law. Their offering is really well tailored to foreigners:
- They provide this service digitally, 100% in English.
- It is success-based. This means you only pay something if your case is settled successfully and permanently.
- They check your case for free.
- Their fee is transparent (max 30% of the total savings made on the original claim amount).
It is about finding the right strategy for you, whether that is negotiating a settlement with the law firm or fighting back with a lawyer. As it is success-based and the first check is for free, you can still decide to take one of the other options listed here, after they checked you case. It is worth trying out by using the form on the homepage.
I wish you good luck in fighting against the odds. I hope this post helped you understand your situation. Let me know in the comments if you have questions.
Bastien
Also, if you want to use your internet access as you want, don’t forget you can fully hide your traffic with a good VPN like NordVPN. Considered one of the bests on the market, safe and easy to use, it works well for this kind of use too.
Warning letters for torrenting – FAQ
There are no rules defining the probability that you could get caught, and also no way to tell the delay with which you can receive this letter. Only time can tell.
This post is about torrenting and streaming. I cannot answer about any other means or technologies. Current tools available to law practices to track data transfers is only applicable to torrent nodes and streams right now.
Disclaimer: this post is purely for informative purpose about what to do when caught illegal file sharing in Germany. It doesn’t replace the counselling for a professional attorney. Please make sure you fully understand your situation before taking any action. Better safe than sorry <3 <3 <3.
Also a big thank you to Oliver from the Frankfurt Expat blog, whose post on the legality of streaming helped me fine tune some details of this article. If you are living near or around Frankfurt, check his blog out, it’s a good read to discover the city.
interesting article and comments. Here are some issues I have and wonder if anyone knows.
They hire private firms to scan p2p traffic and such. Lets say I create a Zip file or even an Avi file. and title it some new movies name. Basically the same title as those torrents. i upload and people download. In reality the actual file shared might be my birthday video or whichever. Would they still charge me?. My point is the system is clearly flawed. they dont know what to do. They would probably bill me to pay 1000 euro or more for a file thats my own copyright. They literally have no idea what i downloaded. what i shared. have they properly investigated? Also.. these laws firms arent the copyright owners. I understand they are a law firm. but in order to charge someone they must have been ordered to do so by the copyright owners. My feeling is they already seek out individuals without even being ordered to sue. I am sure the copyright owners agree after whats when they find the culprits who downloaded their things. But is it even legal to do it proactively by a firm? they arent exactly police. They should get hired after an offence has been made and someone wants their money. Not go out on their own and find people who are breaking the law? . And finally yes there’s the issue of who downloaded what. Every household has different people who use a wifi. Yet the owner gets charged? shouldnt they proof first that the contract holder downloaded the movie. If I borrow my friends car and I commit a crime. I crash and hurt someone badly. That person who owns the car doesnt get charged for harming that person do they. There just seems to be a lot of issues with all of this. In the end its probably what the article says. “scare tactics” Just the mere fact they can decide on a random amount of fine to b paid seems ridiculous in a law system.
A final thing to add. which left me thinking. How do these firms know which file has been downloaded. Which i touched on in my comment. In order to verify its the copyrighted content. they have to download it themselves. Do they not? they cant just look at the title of a file and assume. But if they do download it. they are doing the same thing as what they accuse you of. With the exception if they actually have permission by the content holder. But somehow I doubt they have some written consent for every single file. I wonder when things do go to court and you really want to fight it. These firms really have to show some proof. The investigation they did. knowing the file is in fact the copyrighted content. they have to show they have been ordered to fine you by the actual copyright holder. Not to mention they have to proof its you who downloaded it. Which is not an easy task. If I download a movie using a public Mcdonalds or Starbucks wifi. surely McDonalds gets sued. Lets say I have an airbnb or hotel and offer wifi to guests. I would get sued too? How is that different than a McDonalds free wifi. theres just so many issues with all of this and iam surprised law firms are able to do this and get millions
Hey Patrick. Yes the system is flawed and sometimes some companies are a making large scale scams, without proper copyright holder authorization.
Hi, I was staying in Germany for a month and working. I got contacted by the house owner accusing me of having downloaded something I definitely didn’t and saying he’s going to pass my details on. There were 4 other people living in the house at the same time. Is there any way I can prove it wasn’t me? They all had laptops and I had a tablet, is there anything about the way it was downloaded that could show that it was a computer rather than an app? How much proof do they need to fine me? I’m really worried because it was like €1200
Thanks
Hey Eva. I’m no lawyer and this doesnt constitute legal advice. A line of defense could be to say that there is now way to determine who exactly did it in the household. That is unless the landlord can prove who’s device’s MAC address it is (for example).
Hi I hope you have already resolved this. since it is a long time ago…if you haven’t: you don’t have to prove anything because it is against the law. You can threaten him by saying this is against data protection law and you are a private person (data protection does not apply to registered companies), without a police/court order with evidence that you are clearly the person who should be responsible, it is illegal to pass your detail on. If he does, you will sue him across the nation and he will probably have to pay more than what he has to pay to the copyright claim.
Can the person who owns the Internet contract of an apartment receiving a letter from an ISP (not from any lawyer firm) indicate any wrongdoing? Is that the first step that happens? Or else it sounds like all of these cases are from courts and firms contacting them. I noticed there is a letter to the landlord from Telekom but I think it may just be a bill, please let me know how it works exactly, because in the US its the ISP that contacts you first. Thanks.
Hey Tom. The ISP never will and never can send you such letters.
Hello I’ve watched several movies ..will I get caught for every movie? Cause I’ve already received a fine for one movie . Thank you
Hello. I understood abou torents. However, there are several webs (Host for direct downloads) which have files with copyright as MEGA, 1-FICHIER, UPTOBOX etc. I know that if I download a direct file there is not a problem, because they (Lawyers) do not know what I was downloading, basically (special if the file compressed with a password). However, now there are some websites such as uptobox, that also let play the file which is downloaded. for example: (https://uptobox.com/0i8sxsg2vqlv) There you can see that the file is a movie file (.mp4 extension) and if you play a little you know that the file is copyrighted. My question is. 1. If I download by the direct way (no torrent) a movie (a video file) through this server (like in the example) Can I have in troubles? 2. If I download that files from the network of the university, is that double illegal? (they have general ip but you sing in into the network with your student’s credentials). 3. pages that streaming sports is also illegal if I stream from a web browser (as firefox, chrome) (example of this streaming web pages of sports: http://www.rojadirecta.me) 4. When you said premium users are more easy to get cached, you also refer to host sites such as MEGA, UPTOBX ETC or are P2P premium users?
Thank you so much for your comments.
Hello,
I am an international studnet in Germany. Someone told me about popcorn time for watching moviies. I downloaded the app and streamed a movie for 1-2 seconds. I immidiately realized something is wrong and closed it. I fear, I will now recieve fine from Waldorf-Frommer What should I expect?. Does the charges depends upon the amount of material downloaded/uploaded?
Hey Bilal. No it doesn’t depend on the amount of material you shared.
I got a court order finally after 4 years even after having every argument on the book against some scrupulous law firm. Apparently they now have 10 years to chase you and are afraid what could happen with a Green government, so these law firms are taking everyone to court (even if you counteroffer). I imagine the business has now grown out of it, because even if a copyright firm loses they still get paid (and a lot) by the copyright holder. The entire system exists to create a new economy of making money out of nothing. In their initial arguments to the court they even argue that this supposed game I downloaded was wildly successful, which maybe doesn’t make sense logically in regards to damages, but they use it to spruce up the value of the game (even though I didn’t even own a PC to play it on).
Does anyone have experience on how this will play out in court?
Also are there any activists in Germany? How can we organize against this evil industry? Come on what happened to GDPR…some private law firm can just pull your internet data and connect it to a name, in the future will they also plan on doing this if you post an opinion they don’t like. So many posts here, what does it take to fight for everyone?
Is sending a link to a DL website to someone on WhatsApp a risk?
Hey there,
as far as I understood the contents that can be signaled by the firms are movies and music.
If I don’t have any file in the sharing folder and I start to download an image file containing videogames, how likely can this be detected?
Thank you
Hey Mau. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hey MAU, it’s not about the download problem, it’s about the sharing/upload and multiplying, which torrenting does. it does not really matter, what you torrent. I am sure they will get you, if you torrent the latest E.A.game or gay porn like PARAKA in his comment below.
Waldorf & Frommer only cares about the easy money. They have 100 something lawyers all over Germany signed up with them, but their office is in Munich, which is Germany’s most expensive city. It’s not about enforcing the law, but about making money using the law. check my DRSNUGGLES comment below. They’ve sued people eBaying DVD gimmick discs from TV magazines in the 90s.
I downloaded gayporn at en-gay.torrents.com is it included in the list of torrent sites to look out for?
Hey Paraka. It’s not about torrent websites listing torrent files, it’s about the use of Torrent clients itself.
As far as I know Waldorf & Frommer law firm specializes on copyright issues in Germany.
They’ve sued in the 90s folks, who sold DVDs on eBay,
which they received as gimmicks from their 2,50 Deutsch Mark TV-magazines.
On those DVDs it was stated: “for personal use only, not for re-sale!”
In those days a DVD cost new over 30 Deutsch Mark (15 Euros USD20).
Anyway, now about torrenting, direct download and streaming.
Yes, Waldorf & Frommer is the law firm, which has a contract with the German phone companies, monitoring the traffic and guarding the copyright law in Germany … so much to privacy in Germany … Big Brother is watching you!
1.) Torrenting is bad, because you need to share.
It is not about the downloading issue, but about the uploads,
which they get you, because you help with the distribution of pirated material.
2.) Streaming and direct downloading is a grey zone and
so far nobody is hunting you down for such,
as you are not helping to distribute pirated material,
but they may change the law in time,
as torrenting was popular in the early days,
but now is dying in Europe and North America,
because of the lawmakers.
Still very common in Asia and Russia.
To be safe, you may sign up for a good VPN service and pay a yearly fee.
The free VPN suck, as you won’t get the speed.
Connect to Swiss and Spanish VPN.
In Switzerland they have the internet privacy law … most democratic country in the world and
in Spain the high court ruled, torrenting for private purpose is legal
(commercial use would be, if you burn and sell DVDs like in Asia or use pirated material to watch in cinemas like I’ve seen in Trinidad & Tobago on a trip)
Again, it’s about the upload not the download,
so direct download and steaming is safe so far.
About Waldorf & Frommer,
don’t sign anything.
If you sign the letter,
you agree, that you have been notified, done something illegal and pay the quoted penalty.
If you receive a letter from Waldorf & Frommer don’t accept it.
They most likely will send it to you with signature required to have the receipt that you received their proposal of the fine.
What about a direct download? like from this link https://www.movs4u.to/download_link/?server=gdrive_single&id=TWo1SUx3ZzF4T0JuMllqZGlEYXFSOGVxMFZWRnFoNlhQQ0NmdTVhMmROQVowOUROcXN6djVLbzdzK0RERjZ5Qw,,
can i got caught? or it’s Okay. Thanks.
Basically I just landed in Germany and I wached some porn trought some sites who came up(I don’t know the names)and I don’t know if I am at risk although I used a free vpn(x vpn ) .Please help
I am just worried if this websites where following the copyright rules
As mentioned above, it is not about the download, but about the upload, which is considered distribution of pirated material. So direct download is safe so far. With torrenting you need to share, which means you can only download but have to upload a certain percentage, unless you have a torrenting client, where you can tweak it so that it won’t upload anything. Limewire Pro used to be one of those clients in those days, which you could customize it for zero upload.
My question is that how long it takes to receive any letter home if you are involved in it?
For me it took around two months.
Is it safe to download or torrent if I’m using a VPN? I have express VPN which is pretty good so I’m just wondering if that’s enough to protect me.
Hey there. Refer to ExpressVPN’s documentation about that.
hello,i have a question. I understand you all told about the law,but i want to ask something else.IF you have in your google drive account some movies,and you are allready in Deutchland,be allowed to download this movies to your person computer,i meen from your google drive to your pc?
Hey George. As i have replied many times before; this post is about torrent and streaming, not direct downloads. The real question you probably want to ask is ” Can i get caught?”.
No,not exactly.just you already talked about the torrents and streaming but a lot of people didn’t know what happening with direct downloads,from google drive, outlook tsc tsc.Is the law same or no.Because all cloud services from all companies have “privacy”.
Hi there! I wanted to ask you something. Yesterday I created a deezer account for free for 1 year method which it’s almost 100 euros, but I did it for free through some ways I saw on youtube! So I want to know if this is risky, and how can I get caught? Cause when I created the account I changed the IP adress and the informations of the account are not mine! Please help me, I wanna know if I’m at risk, and how can I get caught for example? How do they know who I am and where do I live…
Hey Marina. This is just way beyond what this post is about. Sorry can’t help you. Don’t want to give you any false answers.
And learn some English!
Hi Bastien,
I have a question regarding the grey area of this whole subject of (i)llegal downloads. So, reading some materials on the internet I understood that the main issue is file sharing, rather than direct download (for your own use), right?
What about downloading subtitles through websites like YIFY, OpenSubtitles or SubScene? Is it legal? Can you be fined for downloading subtitles from those websites since you do not share them?
Thank you!
Hey Mike. This post is about streaming and torrenting. Direct downloads are not concerned by what is said in the post.
Hello, i have downloaded the Episode 1 from One Punch Man (Season 2) and when it was over i deleted it and the file , it is a Korean anime. My Question is, do Animes Count as big firms like WB, 20th Century Fox , Disney etc? How About watching a movie on web but not downloading it? Just like Youtube or Netflix but free.
Hey Lukas. I am not a copyright expert so my guess is a good as yours. Streaming is addressed in the post.
Hey there have a question,what about Plex? if i stream movies betweeb my family members this is still illegal? and for the rest of the people just use a vpn for torrenting,i pay 56 euros membership for one year on NordVpn and have never encounter any problem in Germany.
Hey Stefano. Don’t know about Plex sorry. This post is about torrenting and streaming.
Hi,
I was visiting someone in Germany (I’m not German) and I downloaded a movie (without knowing that it was that much forbiden in Germany…) and the flatmate (who is the owner of the internet) of my friend got a letter with an amount of 900€ to pay. However he was not there at the time of the facts and can prove it easily. He hired a lawyer since he is the one attacked. The lawyer told him that it was very likely that the lawyers who wrote the letter would not look further to find the real person who downloaded. Is it true ? Or should I also already hire a lawyer? Do you already hear some cases like that?
Hey Louise. You have obtained professional advice and probably paid for it. I’d follow that the pros have to say if i were you. They have the experience.
I am an international student and I am coming to Germany soon. Will there be a risk if i bring my laptop full of downloaded torrent files and I uninstall my torrent software before reaching germany ? Like I just keep the media files only
Hey Kieran. I cannot tell you what to do. I can only tell you that sharing files is forbidden.
Of course you can . Many of my friends bring terabytes of data into Germany. No one is going to hack your computer in order to check for media files xD How can someone now what is on your computer if your are not sharing your files, and who can say that you didnt pay for those movies while you were in your country.
Hi! Did you heard about cases, when someone received a warning from these lawfirms, then paid for lawyer to hàndle it and then (!) After 2 years got new warning letter about these old case, when they scarying you about going to court etc.
That’s my case, after 2 years I received letter from Waldorf &Frommer about my old case. In that situation, I have no idea what to do. Did anyone heard about similar situation?
I have the exact same case right now – from Waldorf &Frommer. I contacted my lawyer, I am supposed to see her next week (we have to oppose the court order within 2 weeks , they ask for 1300 euros…)
What did you do?
i have a same case too… so sad and don’t know what to do…
i will contact my lawyer and it just feels like Waldorf &Frommer are really blood sucker..
Hi,
I messed up, I admit it. I was not aware of this policy in Germany so I had downloaded some new movies in my first week here in Germany.
I am sure I will get the Abmahnung letter worth thousand of euros in coming weeks.. And I am just a student! My question is, do lawyers who help you prepare cease and desist letter, (in avarge ofc) get you to pay around 600€ (that is how much I found ic couple of examples) per movie or for whole lawsuit?
I am desperate 🙁
Hey there. The unfortunate answer is “it depends”. Depends on how many movies, from how many copyrights holders, how often, etc.
Thank you for reply.
The lawyer I contacted said letters usually arrive in two weeks after downloading. Do you share opinion with him?
Hey Greg. I have no statistics on the delay between infringement and letters. sorry.
It was downloading or file sharing?
Hey. I am in the same situation as you. Did you receive any letter?
Hi , just received Waldorf-Frommer cease and desist letter. I never did streaming neither file sharing. I did nothing but paid my Netflix account. It cant be that I have to pay for doing NOTHING at all.
Hey Dounia. If you have done nothing at all, check first that there no wrong uses of your WiFi by someone else than you.
Hi there,
I have a couple of questions:
– I read that some videos on youtube are banned in Germany. Given that there are numerous movies available on Germany, what if we watch a movie on youtube, is is considered as illegal? I always thought any content on youtube was fine.
– Regarding streaming content: what is the definition of ‘legal streaming websites’ vs ‘illegal streaming websites’? For example, there are many Russian streaming websites and we are used to watching movies or series on such sites but I never asked myself what is allowed and what is not… Any ideas?
Hey Cedric. Again just an opinion here. Watching content on Youtube is fine. An example for a legal streaming service would be Netflix or Hulu.
Hi,
I am in Berlin for several months and I have a mobile roaming connection of another european phone company of another country
I maybe will need some patches for softwares,.
If I use my mobile connection, there is a possibility of been caught?
Teamviewer is traced? If I will control a my pc in my native country to send me something on my mail, to download here in Germany, there are any risks?
Thank you very much
Hey Matteo, as mentioned before, i cannot provide answers for each use case/scenario as it is way beyond my humble knowledge. This post is about streaming and torrenting. Direct downloads are much harder to trace in my opinion.
Hi, i’ve been living in germany since august. I got caught downloading a movie and received my letter. Now before i came to Germany i still had a lot of movies on my laptop’s harddrive but not on my bittorrent. I deleted everything but will i still have problems with those other movies i had on my laptop?
Hey Lina. This post is about Torrenting while being in Germany. If you haven’t been sharing those files while being in Germany, there is no probably no cause for concern for these files, as far IP detection is concerned.
Hi,
First of all, thanks for your great post, which provides me a lot of helpful information (thanks to all of commenters, too). I’ve followed your recommendation of the Jurato, to search a specialized lawyer to take care of my file sharing case, and I accepted one from several offers and paid (with a flat rate), but since then I didn’t hear back from him for more then one week. Are you sure this platform is trustworthy? Because now I feel I’m double f***ed, on one hand I have a lawyer firm is chasing me for a fine, on another hand have a paid lawyer that leaves me in cold. It feels so bad and so stressed.
Hey Alighiero. Jurato is legit yes, but still you should get decent service. It’s no excuse.
Hi, i am an international student and currently living in Cologne, Germany. I’ve just downloaded some videos from Google Drive (i don’t really download them, the videos are in offline mode, they’re not in my phone, they’re only in my google drive). Should i be worried since these files are from an account in Twitter? Is that considered illegal to have some videos offline in google drive?
Hey there. I can’t answer on this particular case because this post is about torrenting and streaming. This would be considered direct download i guess.
Hello hello, sooo i have moved to germany for some months ago and on the 28 december i downloaded 6-8 movies from thepiratebay. One from warner bros that i got a charge on (950 euro)
I got it yesterday (26-01-2019)
Should i be dead worried about the other movies aswell? (the others aint from warner bros)
So my question is should i contakt a lawyer and tell them about it or whats the plans? I had no idea it was this strict….
Girlfriend dead worried, thinking i will end up in jail
Greetings/
Me
Greetings Krillow. Yes, you should be worried. If you also get caught for the other movies, you will get a letter for each of them. Each of those could be processed as separate cases. If you contact a lawyer, it’s a good idea to disclose all relevant information. Good luck with this!
Me and my girlfriend are aware of fines and that is why we are never going to use totrent or any illegal site for watching or downloading …we have vodafone internet and as any other modem we can share homebox to other users of vodafone , we got mail about some movie we didnt watch or hear about it. And ip addres is wierd and i can check which device is connected or were connected and i can not find that “user” who tryed to download movie for 40sec as stated in letter. What should we do…can vodafone check that for us. Or can we do anything else to fight so we do not get punished bicause of someone else being bad person. Thank you.
Hey Fukasve. It’s hard to say what Vodafone could tell you or if they would be willing to do so. Depends if the modem has dynamic IP and other stuff i suppose. If that is truly a mistake, you can still hire a lawyer to decide the best course of action.
Yes..i will have to fight against it. Google has “myactivity” feature and i have proof i was not watching “12 strong” for 40 seconds as stated. I have history from all devices connected in my flat and i will go to vodafone to ask about MAC address ,ip address tells me its not any of my devices and MAC will just confirm it more alongside with history proof.
Worst of all when i read how they will give me smaller fine from 1700€ to 915€ it gets even more suspicious.
Hi Fukasve, I just received similar letter, with exactly same amount of fee (reduced to 915 euros from 1700). And they claim I watched some movie I have no idea about for 7 mins, which I didnt do. Can you update on your case? Did hiring a lawyer help, was it worth it?
Using a VPN can prevent this kind of warning and fines? I just had my DSL connection installed.
VPN is a way to ensure your privacy yes. More info this way.
Hi,
I visited my family in Germany and watched some movie online, bla bla they got a letter 915 euro. Question is, if they put the blame on me (I live in Denmark), and I get then the letters, it would be safe to assume that I can throw them out right?
HEy Dragos. Again, you may want to check with a lawyer but from things i have read on forums and here, this is not a safe assumption and they may chase you in DK too.
Hey, i had some movies which was downloaded in my home country and its legal to download movies there. Anyway i watched one of these movies in here (Germany) then I received this Abmahnung letter. The thing that I am wondering is if I can you use my laptop after resetting my laptop or should I do something more advanced for it?
Hey Sam, i can’t assist you on this particular issue, i’m not IT professional.
Hello there! Which companies are hiring these lawyers to send these letters / sue the people using internet? Any idea please?
Hey Lokesh. You can check the practices’ websites for more details but all the big Copyright holders like Viacom, Sony, Disney etc…
Hello. I have a question. We are staying with my friend in Germany for a few weeks and she won’t let me download ANYTHING for fear we will have to pay fine. Now, can I download apps from the Crome Web Strore, Playstore or pictures from these apps: Tumblr, Pinterest, Twitter and Google? Is it still illegal?
What about videos from TWITTER/INSTAGRAM that I download on this websites; http://twittervideodownloader.com/error |
https://www.10insta.net/#grid-gallery ?
Hey Penny. This comment section holds no counselling value and is about streaming or downloading via torrent nodes. Direct downloads maybe illegal all the same depending on the material’s license, it’s just a matter or whether or not you can be caught.
I believe it’s legal to download videos from such websites as:
https://twittervideodownloader.com
https://ssstwitter.com
https://www.10insta.net
You can even find Google Chrome extensions in the official store which help you download videos form Twitter and Insta. If Google allows, you are safe.
Hey Barry. Be careful with the use of such tools. Although the use of the tool itself is not illegal, it’s what you download with it that might be.
Hi, I now recieved a letter from WarnerBros lawyer 3 years ago for movie piracy. I since the begining hired a lawyer to take care of the lawsuit.
WarnerBros wanted me to pay 2000 euros..
Now once or twice a year warnerbros lawyers and my play pingpong, What can be stressy since they still didn’t give up or offer me to pay a smaller amount of money.
The question is, do you have any idea of how long can it last before they give up on the lawsuit or offer a win win situation?
Or is there anychance it happen?
Btw the case didn’t go to court yet. My lawyer told me there is 5% chance it goes to court but he couldn’t really answer my other question.
If you have any idea i will be happy.
Hey Emil. Your lawyer cannot answer because there is simply no rule for these sort of things. Timeline also vary a lot. Good luck with this !
I stayed in a Airbnb in Germany.
I am not a German citizen and my computer when switched on, automatically opens uTorrent. I had some Torrents downloading in the background, I didnt know it was illegal to DL or UL in Germany. I was there just for a trip. I have payed money before to close / settle the cases. But now after 2 years I have received from the owners of the Airbnb a letter that I need to pay money again. I have written to them that I am not paying one more cent for a case 2 years old for which I was told is closed. I was told if I pay the settlement it will close the case. Now they want money again. I wonder if they will try to get money even tho I am not a German resident?
Hey Chris. The honest answer is “it depends” unfortunately. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t.
HI Team,
I have just purchased premium VPN account and staying near Nuremberg from last 18 months. Could you please let us know what are the advantages of having paid vpn services while surfing and downloading in Germany.
With my paid VPN connected, Can I download any music content from websites as a.zip file/.mp3 file) , software content via torrent link or by free download of .exe or.zip file with 30 days trial version ?
Thank you team.
Best Regards,
Ek
Hey Ek. you can ready about VPNs in Germany on this post for more answers.
I guess I am one of the unlucky ones that got a court order Mahnbescheid. I ignored the letters as there is no way to prove I actually got one. They usually come in a white envelope. This time the letter came in a signed and dated yellow envelope. I was reading that you can check ‘nein’ and send the letter back and they will have to sue you in civil court and actually prove their case against you. I have 2 weeks to send the letter back or within 2 weeks a bailiff will begin debt enforcement. I was just wondering if I do check ‘nein’ and force them to take me to court, how long is the process before they actually order me to court? I am leaving Germany in 5 months and do not plan to return everrrrr!
Hey MJG. I think you are better off seeking professional advice as it may be on a case by case basis.
Thank you! I did see a lawyer on base and they told me to pay it… I just want to tie up the courts long enough to get the Hell out of here!
Is the amount being charged by charged in the court order the same as in the first few notifications from the lawyers you have received?
alright i red what u wrote but i cant seem to comprehend how can they find me…i am on a public unprotected wifi in a hostel using a laptop which i bought off in a store but never did give any info…
so i go on a pornsite and use stream ripper to save the videos for later…
i dont see how its possible for them to find me…they can only trace it back to the public wifi but even so why would they want to coz then they would have to find who did download it and any1 could…i already changed mac adress when i remembered its punishable here…i downloaded like 100 movies and clips….should i expect 100 letters of 900 euros lol??
if so, when should they come???
if they dont come in month or two am i off the hook??
Hey there. In short: no one knows.
Hi, I’m sharing a house with some school colleagues, one of them has his name on the contract, but we split the bill.
The contract holder of the internet received a letter which says he needs to pay 900 euros for an illegal video download(there is an IP address on the letter), can we find out on which device was the file downloaded to? or is it a way to detect exactly who made the download? Because the contract holder asked to split the fine but I did nothing wrong and I don’t think I should pay for someone else’s fault.
Thanks!
Hey Florian. The IP address is linked to the router but maybe the letter indicates the MAC address? This identifies the device responsible for it. And evidently: whoever did this should pay the fine fully.
Hello
I receive a MAHNBECHEID from WALDORF FROMMER .Its a download i didn’t do but might a friend who visit me from Greece, watch a movie which he download in Greece.
What should i do.I am unemployed in Arbeitzam.I m desperate !
Hey Sakis. Your options are listed in this post. Good luck.
Hi, I have a question about Iggy games (or something like that), I am usually buying new games on Steam, but sometimes when I just want to try some new game (and later refund), sometimes Steam refuse my refund request. So I will like to try some new games (before I buy originals), and I sow a lot of tham on this Iggy games web site. Looks they are all connected to direct link (Megaupload.nz qnd Googledrive), so I am asking how risky is that to download in Germany? Thanks in advance
Hey Aleks. I have no knowledge on this but in general, if it’s copyrighted material that you should pay for, yes that would be illegal. Regarding risks; it’s in the post already.
Hello!
I have a question.. using Sci-Hub is also considered illegal download of copyrighted material ? http://sci-hub.tw/
Hey Juana. Judging from the homepage, yes is probably the answer.
Hi!
I am an international student and currently in Germany. I came here 1 month ago. Yesterday, I removed a movie downloaded from PC when I was in my home country. But, my torrentz file has automatically run and today morning I saw the movie has downloaded again. But, I did not do on my purpose it and I removed all torrent files and related softwares from my PC. Is there any authorized body to inform about this situation and explain that I am not guilty for the situation. By the way I live in NRW- Dortmund.
Thank you.
Hey Ami. Nope.
Hi Ami, I’m currently in the same situation as you were (and I also live in NRW). Did you eventually get in any trouble with your situation? If you could please answer I’d be really grateful.
Hi i brought my friends laptop in that he watched porn movies unfortunately when i connected net and searched every thing porn movies opened is it a problem will it cause any fine or its not a problem.
Hey Madhav. I don’t really understand the question and it doesn’t seem related to torrenting or streaming that much…
Just out of curiosity…can people download material from Telegram Legally?
Hey Rr, Copyright infringement is always illegal, no matter the channel or tool used.
Hey, it’s me again.
Just wanted to ask about this software called KINOVEA https://www.kinovea.org . I visited its official website and it says it’s free to download and it’s an open source. Is it 100% legal to download this software? Sorry if it sounds like a stupid question but from now on I’m gonna be really cautious with all the downloads in Germany.
Hey Simon. Well it seems that you know the answer already: free to download. Soooo…
Hi Simon I think this one is a trap, please do not use it you get get huge fines through the post.
Hi,
I have a few questions regarding downloading in Germany, I hope you can help.
1. I arrived in Germany 3 weeks ago as an exchange student for 4 months and didn’t know anything about this illegal downloading thing. For my master’s thesis I’ll be doing some football match analysis, therefore, I needed to download some last season Champions league games. I downloaded quite a few but NOT through torrent (I don’t have torrent installed on my laptop). I downloaded through these websites (www.fullmatchesandshows.com and fullmatchsports.com) but the websites redirected me to openload and MEGA.nz (the downloading was direct from there). Is downloading through these websites trackable? Should I be worried?
2. What about watching football online? Watching live streams? Is it trackable? Because I also did that.
3. What about downloading podcasts from websites like BBC sport? They are made available to open public.
Thanks for your answers.
1- It is direct downloads. You can’t track that the same way you can track torrent nodes.
2- Please refer to the streaming part of the post.
3- Well, that’s a podcast made available by the BBC, so yeah, that’s legal-
Hi, Recently I have arrived in Germany as an international student. I have a bit torrent software in my laptop but i didn’t do anything with that. I used my friend’s wifi to do my university work in the laptop and that is only for few minutes. I didn’t download or upload anything. When i came to know about the law i immediately uninstall the torrent. However, My friend said, he got a letter with a fine and this is because of my laptop. Is it really because of me? I didn’t do anything with the software. So why i have to pay?
Hey Hasan. You have to look in the logs of the software, it only takes a few seconds to share files via torrent nodes. You can compare the files you shared with what’s indicated on the letter.
A friend of mine downloaded a couple of episodes series from Netflix UK whilst at my House he has an account with Netflix UK so why is this illegal by the way I have received a letter from Waldorf Frommer demanding 1600€
Dafuq. No that’s not illegal.
Hello All,
I have downloaded two images from one of the traveling guide website “https://www.lonelyplanet.com/”.
Can anyone please tell me,
If I get penalty for this….? How much I can get…!!?
It’s a direct download.. but in the above website they mentioned that, all information is copy write protected.
I really didn’t noticed this one and downloaded… Can anyone please help out this..!!
Thank you
Hey Hanamant, this post is about torrenting and streaming so i can’t really answer. My personal opinion is that it’s fine.
Hi,
i watched a movie at popcorn time and has been sued by WALDORF-FROMMER while i was giving a visit to my mom in germany now she got the letter but i have transfered all the information on my name. but i am not willing to pay the amount of 915 euros because i didnt get any kind warning for not using it.
is there any kind of help i can get regarding this ? or anyone or lawyer i could consult????
This article should be made into hoardings and should be displayed everywhere in Germany.
This article should be handed over to everyone that enters Germany.
Thanks a lot!
I received letters like that (2 or 3 I think in the past decade), one was complete bogus, I ignored them all, nothing so far, with the last, they tried again, about almost a year later with another payment order of over 700€ for one movie. Nothing happened. They send them out and many people pay out of fear. In the end, they can’t prove it was you who downloaded it (even if they have your MAC – someone else could have downloaded it, or you could have been hacked)- I guess the costs to rlly check every single offenders case would be too high, they make enough money with just this scare tactic and horrendous fees (also they probably go to court if it’s about more than just a couple of movies and they think they can/are going to get a lot of dough from that person.
I mean seriously, how likely is it, that someone can pay a few thousand euros with one payment just like that for a stupid fee. (I live in Germany btw)
Hi
i moved to Germany this summer for a holiday and a friend hosted me. So i was using there interent for almost everything . And i happen to be uaing spotify on my phone for which because its not supported in my home country , qas instead using a vpn. I am not certain if feom our home network i downloead any videos from torent platforms but now my host recieved a letter about the copyright issues and he said they have to pay a lot of money. If this is true i feel guilty so canbthey transfer the case to me? Or what can i do to takw charge?
Hi Jeff. A lawyer can help you draft a document to transfer the charges on you.
what if i downloaded whatever i want from a restaurant or university wifi?? or if i used vpn?
Hi George. Please read the post again.
Hi Bastien,
My german friend got a letter about two movies uploading for a couple of seconds and received 2x 700 euro fine. However, the movies were on my laptop and I don’t even live in germany. Now I don’t want him to have the trouble, but i wander if I take responsibility for it, what will happen to the fine, whether my government (dutch) will take legal action? If my MAC adress is not registered in germany, is that a way to avoid the fine?
Hi Bob. To the best of my knowledge; if you take responsibility, they will come after you, even though you are somewhere else than in Germany. It’s a private law practice, it’s not a government fine. Regarding the MAC address; good thinking but i don’t know.
This all smells like scheiß because the rules of the European Union are different in that, if you find something on the internet, it’s yours
However, if you share copyrighted material, you’ll run into trouble.
I’m clearly no expert on german laws around this but I’d be surprised if they’re different from EU Law.
Nevertheless, use a VPN client (I use ExpressVPN) and that conceals your identity by acting like an intermediary to the content you wish to download or Torrent. (Requests to the torrent seeders appear to come from the VPN exit node)
Hi. My landlord recently received an Abmahnung from a recogniyed law firm for copyright protection and I couldn’t deny anything from them since they provided us our “own” wifi connection in the apartment. So yes, I’m guilty of what I did. Well, as of now, the case is still ongoing. They helped me together with their lawyer and I think that everything’s going well. I couldn’t say much yet. What concerns me right now is, will I still be caught watching the files already downloaded in the past? But I have already deleted the apps I used to download it. Please help.
Hey Jessy. Ask the lawyer, but there probably will be a compromise that whatever you pay now you will cover you from any other “infractions” you made in the past, for intellectual property represented by this law firm.
Hey!
I made a big mistake and forgot about this for two seconds. Just enough time to download a single song. (Foals – Spanish Sahara) I tried to cancel it which didnt work and deleted it immedietly which wont help me at all, but still: it happened. It was not a torrent download, just a regular mp3 downloading site. How much fine can I except and whats the chance of me receiving a letter for a “marginal” mistake like this? (I’m a foreigner and i used the wifi of my relatives without VPN)
Hi Csaba. Direct Downloads are not concerned by the above post.
Hi Bastien!
Not long ago i moved to Germany and out of nowhere they send us a letter saying that we gotta pay 915 euros for watching DeadPool 2 and it said that we downloaded it at 14 PM but my pc wasn’t even on (i reset my pc before i moved to germany).So we replied to them telling them we will not pay and today they send us another letter telling that we gotta pay and the price will be discounted. What should we do?
Hey there. Get a lawyer if you are unsure what to do, or if you are sure it’s a scam, then you know what decision you need to take.
I used ‘eagle get’ to dowload a movie . Is it also forbidden ?
Hi Tom. Using any tool to unlawfully download copyrighted content is forbidden yes. What i can tell you is that direct downloads can’t be tracked the same way as Torrent trackers.
Hi Bastien! Can i get caught for watching movies online, no downloads and no streaming the movie ?
Hi there. Unfortunately i can’t assist you for anything else than Torrents and streaming. I can’t know every tech outthere you know… Good luck.
Hi Bastien,
A friend of mine was watching an anime chapter by streaming and by mistake the page downloaded the chapter. Do
you know how likely it is that they will catch him?
Hi there. Impossible for me to know.
did they got him?
Hi I have a question. I’m currently about to sign working contracts in Germany. I’ve decided to go to a lawyer for advice but unsure if this will affect my stay in Germany. FYI I’m from South Africa where no one cares about file sharing… As a foreigner does this whole thing go on some kind of record, and could this effect future visa applications? I feel like such an idiot…
Hi Timothy. You will have to check with the kind of visa you are applying for. I think infringement like this is a small offense and is unlikely to affect your application. It doesn’t create a criminal record on you.
Hello Bastien,
I just received a letter from waldorf & frommer for a movie I watched on P2P streaming.
The fee is 915€ but I’m in a particular situation: I’m planning on leaving Germany in 1 or 2 months. Considering the situation and the price I’m highly considering the action of doing nothing, once I left germany, knowing that the bank account linked to the internet connection will be closed, the internet connection too and the address not on my name anymore, am I still on risks or can I lose them by leaving ?
Hi Loic. I think you understand your situation and the risks you are taking. There is no way to measure how successful this can be…
Hey Loïc, can you tell me what happend next ?
Hi, Internet connection is on my name but somebody else, who is staying there did the download. Even then i got the letter for Waldorf Rommer for downloads in internet.
What do i do in this case. Please help.
Hi there. As mentioned in the post, you can uncharge the fault onto this person instead of you.
Hello Bastien , my question is , if i watch online movies is that illegal and i also got a fine for 915 euro 🙁 for only 2 min of download don;t you think is too much for only 2 min of donwloading ?
Hi Marian. Even 2 seconds is copyright infringement. Download/Upload time is a not a relevant dimension here.
Hi Bastien. I found that your article is really helpful. Recently, my friend just download a video of japan variety shows (not a film) using a openload server. By using openload server not using torrent to download the shows will the law firm can fine my friend? And based on what the law firm can fine my friend if the shows itself allow international fans to download and distribute it by subbing it for the international fans can see it? Thanks
Hi Jaime. You can answer you own question; if torrent, there is a chance to get caught. If direct download, then there is no change to get caught. As for the rest, my legal expertise can’t answer that question.
Hi. I want to ask if is it okay to stream/download a foreign variety shows (Korean variety shows)? the show itself is gain an international popularity because of the fans subbed the shows and spread it in the internet so the others can understand when they are watch it. As far as I know the show itself admit that they have an international fans more than the domestic fans and it seems they are okay with the subbing thingso the international fans can keep watching they’re shows. I notice from the comments that there are some fans from germany as well. The germany didnt air this tv show so the germany fans must be stream or download it. Thanks
Hi MJ. Its still illegal to download/stream copyrighted content.
Hi Bastien
We received one of these letters ordering us to pay just under €2k euros for two films. My girlfriend is the one whose name is on the fine but the IP address used and stated on the letter is mine. Can she use this as evidence to prove her innocence?
Hi Luke. You can take over the responsibility for the penalty, if that’s what you mean/want?
Hi Bastien! I know this post is about movies and music. But my concern is more about downloading guitar tabs (music sheet) for the Guitar Pro application. I’m not sure if that’s illegal or not, because generally, music sheets are not for sale in stores as far as I know. Maybe you can enlighten me?
Hi Belva. I haven’t used GP in a long time so i can really tell you about this. If you usually need to pay for them, then yes, it’s probably illegal. Unless there is an open-source/free source of tabs outthere.
Hi Bastien
so i got more than one letter about this for opening torrent for literally 2 sec not more
its been almost 2 years and they are still sending letters about it should i be worried that it might go to court or should i just keep ignoring it
thanks btw for the article it really give me some closure
Hi Steve. As mentioned in the post, it can go both ways. They can either stop the chase or you can be part of the unlucky ones that they can actually sue. It’s rare but it can happen.
This article clearly lacks some knowledge about this issue. The 4th and most rational option is clearly to send a “modifyed Unterlassungserklärung”. It minimizes the risk of further persuasion by the law firm, has almost no expenses, and fights of the immediate claim of the Abmahnung. For the last reason it’s clearly better than not acting because it gives them legal advantages. And if the law firm is more persiverent than in most cases you can still get legal advice or pay later. There are entire (german) forums dedicated to this, and prewritten, legally reliable prewritten documents where you only need to fill in your name, adress and the song/movie that they claim you downloaded. It needs to be modified because the Unterlassungserklärung they send you has an admission of guilt. But also when they abmahn you you kind of have to reply… anyways… maybe it’s hard for non english speakers to learn (and also germans who don’t do extended research about it)
Hi there. I believe that the article was hinting at this too. Maybe it’s not obvious enough. I would be interested to know about those pre-filled template you talk about. Even though i’m not sure this is the right approach either, i’d be interested to know more.
Thank you for the article, it’s really helpful! We were traveling and we got the letter to late. So you advise, as well, that we should send an extension time letter? I found one here: https://www.verbraucherzentrale-bayern.de/wissen/digitale-welt/onlinedienste/runterladen-ohne-reinfall-vorsicht-bei-downloads-aus-tauschboersen-10523
Thank you!
Hi Bastien, hi all,
I used Stremio and received a letter for 620euros for just one episode.
I went on some websites, some say the limitation period (verjähren) for the claim is 3 years. Does it mean that if I don’t do anything about this letter for the three next years, then nothing will happen to me and the won’t be able to do anything about it? (And in the worst case go to court, IF they go until there)
Moreover, I will leave Germany in about 4months, then the best choice seems to do nothing, right? No answer, no payment, nothing.
Thanks for your article and answers.
Hi Z. I have not personally heard of this, maybe you have a source to communicate to us? Regarding what you should do, it seems that you all elements in hand to make a decision. I am no lawyer, only a dude giving some guidance. Sorry.
Hi!
Some friends and I stayed at an Air BnB at Berlin for a short holiday, one of us had a laptop with us which has been used to torrent TV shows. We got a message from our host telling us about the fine. However, the laptop owner had no idea that the TV shows were being seeded as they downloaded the torrents quite some time ago (in their home country) and forgot about them. Plus we are students with no steady source of income. Would telling the law firm that we had no intention to torrent the TV shows, being unaware that it was being seeded and being students with no steady source of income mean they would be able to negotiate a lower fee?
Hi Fara. Being unaware of local rules and leaving your client to seed is not considered a receivable excuse. Also the low income bit; i don’t it will really help. But again, maybe it might if you use a lawyer. Good luck!
Hi Bastien! I recieved a first letter for a fee of 1050 euro. How much time do I have before my first reply to the firm?
thank you
Hi Daniel. There is the theoretical deadline imposed by the firm to reply, as mentioned in the post. However, there is no law enforcing the delay with which you should reply to it. It’s just a mean for pressure.
My friend from Germany got a paper from the law asking her to pay 900 euros for watching a movie on Popcorn Time.
She has sent them a letter that she didn’t know that it was illegal and that she didn’t know that the movie was downloading into her folder.
She apologized and asked them to take back the charge and that she still goes to school and she is still a kid etc.
Is there any chance that she can get away with this?
Hi Sava. This might be a first step to reduce the penalty but i don’t think it can lead to a drop in charges.
Pretty much the same happened to me, but I was on an exchange program instead of living and I already got back. They were going to fine my exchange family but I took on the blame. I’m 15 years old and always download pirated movies back home in Costa Rica, I was uninformed about the piracy law in Germany and my exchange family didn’t warn me about it. I’ll certainly do more research when I travel in the future.
🙂
Hi Bastien
Can i be secure by torrent download in Germany if i use NordVPN or Seedr.cc
Hi Kris. If you correctly use a VPN service to secure your privacy on your internet activity, then it should be fine.
Hi Bastien
if i download films with PIa VPN
or have one cite seedr.cc in GermanY
can they found me or not ?
Thanks
Hi Semov. I can’t know about every particular setup/solution. sorry.
Hello!
Is the youtube converter to mp3 lega or illegal? I cannot find anything about it when it comes to German law….
thank you !
Hi Anja. Do you own the copyright to that content you are ripping off from youtube? If no, then yes, it’s illegal.
I use soulseek withou VPN or nothing…just for download and not upload! And use sites to download softwares (not from torrent)…
There is any problem?
I don’t know what soulseek is. Is it a torrent client? If yes, then the advice above applies.
Hi Bastien, I’ve used accidentally a torrent program without knowing that it’s illegal when I stayed in Berlin with Airbnb. My homeowner said kindly today that they received that letter and I should pay 600 € for it even this is their own internet access. But in fact, I turned back my country, I am in Turkey already. So, all in this situation, I believe that they should have needed to warn me about this strict laws. So, what if I would not pay for it? Do you have any advice for me? What happens when you’re only a tourist who visited Germany?
Hi there. You are wrong to think that you should have had a warning about this. You can still be hold liable for your action, even if you are only a tourist.
Hello, I have received a letter again after 2 years. My flatmate at the time admitted fault and was supposed to sort it out, but of course didn’t (I was travelling at the time so I forgot about it), now I have received 2 more letters – I have facebook convos proving he said he did it. I also have proof I subscribe to netflix and buy all my movies on itunes. Now, I am not the kind of person to take things laying down and I am pretty angry that I am being wrongly accused of something that is completely out of my character. What are my options to counter-sue for slander and damages caused, and to foot the bill for me to pay for a lawyer and send them a message of don’t fuck with me. I don’t care how much this would cost… I would go all the way to prove this point. Alternatively is there a way I can wait as long as possible to cause them as much administration as possible. I don’t want to cave to bullies. I want to know how I can send back a bit of their bad energy.
Hi Kris. Only a lawyer can channel that energy and direct you to the right solution i’m afraid.
Hi bastien,
I have downloaded many movies in Germany and now i am not in germany and they send to my home in Germany a letter to pay 900 euros only for one of the movies which I downloaded, If i pay it then will they send another one because i have downloaded 70 movies. What should i do please help me
Hi Sedd. I cannot tell you what to do. This post helps you make a more informed decision about what to do next.
I recently installed Acestream and watched a live SKY UK football game – am I likely to get a fine for doing so ?
Are live football games also copyrighted ?
Hi Jon. This practice would be considered streaming. Refer to the content of the post about streaming.
Hi Bastian,
I just recently arrived in Germany from africa and had bit torrent open for a minute. My downloads were all stopped but it was only open for 3 minutes.
If i downloaded and stopped my downloads overseas will they send me warning letter for all the movies i had downloaded (partially) there?
Thanks
Hi Alma. Yes, it is possible.
Alma, That happened to me, I came from Bosnia, and when I opened my laptop here in Germany, torrent opened and accidentaly seeded a movie I had downloaded in Bosnia. It was opened for a minute only, (they sent me time 22:20-22:21) and I’ve got 915€ to pay I feel awful, because it came to my sisters adress, so now she has to pay.
It happened to us the exact same thing and it was not even a minute. We are seeking for legal advice and, at the same time, see if it’s a good idea to send an extension time letter. D:
Hello Bastian
Please I need to understand my situations. I downloaded euro truck simulator 2 using torrents about 6 times on the same week as some didn’t function. Now I got a letter already to pay 850€. Please will I be fined for each of the different downloads of the same game?
Hi Moses. Hard to say, it’s possible yes.
Hello Bastian.
I visited some friends in Germany and watched about 20 movies on Popcorn.
The got a letter with a 600 fine for tow movies. Do you believe they will scan the whole IP server history or they can’t catch it all. Thank you.
HI Andy. It’s possible you receive more letter for other offenses yes.
Hi Andy,
I did the same.. Can you tell me if you got more lettlers besides the first?
I’m trying to find out what will happen to me.. Thank you
Hey Bastien!
Thanks for the article above, a big help on softening the blow to anyone receiving these letters. I have moved to Berlin from UK where it is pretty normal to use and download torrents. Would you have alternatives, that would be more safe. I have read of downloading from open directories on Reddit for example. Would this be “safer” at all?
Hi Harry. Sorry, i can’t give you any alternatives, this post is about what to do when you receive a letter, not really on how to find alternative solutions.
Hi, I had a question regarding torrenting.
Well I don’t usually torrent anything other than sometimes maybe games but other than that I don’t torrent movies or music until recently I tried torrenting some albums but then I always cancelled the uploading/seeding if I’m not mistaking. Anyway I received a letter saying that I made Blabla Songs available for everyone to download (uploaded) basically.
Well first off I never uploaded any song and second I don’t even recognize the song names because I don’t even listen to such artists and I checked my torrent list too and there was nothing there. The other thing is that I only downloaded songs or just albums the letter that I got says I downloaded something like “the best of Blabla” so some kind of playlist or whatever. So at this point I don’t find myself guilty for THOSE actions and I don’t know to handle this situation. I would really appreciate it if you could help me out with this.
Hi Haz. IF you think you aren’t guilty for anything they wrote about, it’s also a valid defense strategy. You should be just be sure about it. 🙂
Hi Bastian,
I have used Stremio program for watching a movie and then my friend told me it is probably illegal to watch a movie using this program. Can you please tell me is it illegal or not?
Thanks.
M
Hi Milan. Is it providing copyrighted content illegally? If so, then yes.
no one said after having hired a lawyer how he had solved his problems and whether other letters would come to him in the future
Hey,
I was wondering. My boyfriend is in Germany at the moment studying at a university there. He downloaded a bunch of movies and songs from TPB using the university’s network (edorom) he said. He is a little worried now that he did that. In North Africa it’sokay if you download from TPB.
could the university send him a warning letter? Would he receive a letter from a law firm?
Thanks for your reply I’m eager to know myself.
Hi Sandra. Yes, as mentioned in the post, he can indeed receive a letter. The university would need to identify the person who did that though.
hi can i download TV show via goggle drive? these episodes are uploaded into goggle drive from my home country. is it possible for them to catch
?
HI there. This post is only about Torrent and streaming, not direct downloads.
Hi Bastien,
I have downloaded a movie in another country and when I came to Germany I saw that I had forgotten to remove it from my Utorrent list. According to Utorrent I have seeded about 50MB (of a 1.5 GB movie) before I stopped it. Is this enough for them to catch me at all?
Thanks!
Hi Ivan. There is no way for me to tell. In theory yes.
Hi Bastient,
as many unaware foreigns, my WG apartment also received the letter from Waldorf Frommer and we are currently seeking legal help.
But there are so many companies, seems like there is a new entire business just for defending against these particular cases.
Can you recommend me which company should we choose, to not overpay for hundreds of euros but also to go with someone successful?
Or maybe someone has this unlucky experience already, and would like to recommend a good company to defend ourselves?
Thank you and feel free to PM me!
Patricie Pelikovska FB
patricie.pelikovska@seznam.cz
Hello! I’m a student using eduroam and streamed earlier today an old film via putlocker. I didn’t realize that using putlocker might be considered as piracy, but I’m not a premium user of that website either (actually this is my first time clicking into that site). How high is my risk of being fined for this? Thanks >.<
Hi Alice. I believe putlocker is a streaming website. Refer to the corresponding info in the post.
Hi Bastie, is it legal to download disney movies on torrent?
And is video downloadgelper legal to download with?
Hi Christian. Is it illegal to use the sofware? Probably not in my opinion.
Hi Christian. No.
I used a VPN with switzerland IP to torrent a movie. I regret it now. What are my chances of getting caught?
Hi Alessandro, the IP you used on the torrent tracker was the VPN’s IP adress, not yours.
Hello Bastian.
I use VPN for torrenting. My VPN server is located in Germany. But I am located in another country (non-EU). Is it possible that I still receive such letters?
Hi Ilya, if you are using a VPN, by definition, your IP is hidden behing the VPN’s.
No, I have a different situation. I rent a server in Germany with my credit card and the server hosting provider knows my name, address etc. I install VPN software on that server and use it. Nobody except me uses this server and this IP address. So if I download a torrent I do it through a German IP and this IP is connected to me because I am the only person who uses it. Can German lawyers contact the hosting provider, ask for my address and send me those letters even if I’m outside Germany and even EU?
Hi Ilya. It is possible? yes. Is it likely? you would be very unlucky. Only time can tell.
Hi Bastien! Could you please throw some light on rules regarding streaming on public wifi connections such as at McD, Railway stations, etc. By using softwares such as Link Liars, the IP would be disguised. Are the risks still the same as streaming over a home internet connection?
Hi Jazzie, if you stream over a public network, it’s this network’s IP that will be visible.