We all have our reasons to turn to illegal download in Germany. For some it’s about binge-watching the latest HBO hit series, for others it’s about getting their hands on a rare 1991 version of the Star-Wars trilogy. Whatever it is, you might have gotten away with it in your home country. However, illegally downloading copyrighted content in Germany is severely condemned by law and is frequently enforced by private law firms who send cease and desist letters.
If you are reading those lines, you are probably holding an Abmahnung letter from a German lawyer asking you to pay for compensation. Do not: panic: this guide will reply to the many questions you have right now.
Here is everything you want to know on how to respond to a warning letter for illegally downloading copyrighted content in Germany.
Caught torrenting & streaming in Germany: TL;DR
What follows a long guide on the topic. Here are the main learnings and action points.
- When using torrent clients, it’s the uploading/sharing to other users on the same node that is punishable by law.
- Private practices have specialized in dealing with copyrighting infringments. They use special technolgoy to identify you, with the help of your ISP. This is permitted is Germany and not very regulated..
- Not all cease and desist letters you receive are real. Some are just scams. Check the authenticity of the letter first.
- The letter will be very threatening, list big numbers and big consequences. This is to pressure into paying right away without asking questions.
- Don’t ever sign and pay right away!
- Instead, use a specialized mediation service to get you out of this situation. They will help you reduce the fine and handle negotiations (in English). Lawyers are also an option but it usually more costly & more stressful.
- Using a VPN in Germany is usually a good idea to avoid this situation in the future.
Read on for more details and feel free to leave a comment if you have a question.
Bastien
Illegal download of copyrighted material in Germany – What you should know:
What am I really guilty of ?
German laws concerning file-sharing are pretty strict and clearly condemn any kind of file sharing activity related to copyrighted content. While both download and upload are condemned by law, it’s in reality the uploading part of the process that will be rewarded with a warning letter. Using services like torrent clients makes you automatically share the file you are downloading. This is why torrent and other P2P clients users receive a lot of letters from German lawyers.
Since April 2017, users of illegal streaming services (also broadcasting of live events) can also get in trouble because of a decision from the European Court of Justice. It established (here) that users of such services are indeed acting unlawfully. However, unlike P2P, it’s very difficult to identify users of such streaming platforms as IP adresses are often not stored by these platforms in the long-term, making the enforcement unlikely. Only premium users can easily identified.
On the document, you might see a reference to the set of laws dealing with copyright infringement in Germany; “Urheberrechtsgesetz” or “UrhG”. The article making it illegal is § 19a UrhG.
Who is responsible and who should pay?
German courts have stated that the owner of the internet access is in theory responsible for any wrong-doings happening on that network. They are responsible for securing it so other people don’t use it to download copyrighted content in Germany. This might bring up tensions if you are living in a WG and it’s not your name on the internet provider’s contract. In that case, the owner can “discharge” the fault onto the real culprit to be cleared of all charges if necessary.
How did they could identify me and find my address?
Those German law firms sending warning letters usually hire specialized third-party services that are scanning P2P nodes and clients, recording IP adresses that are currently downloading illegally in Germany. They are then authorized by law to ask your internet provider in Germany to disclose any information linked to that IP adress. This is how they obtained your private details.
Again, this is why law enforcement is really much more difficult to apply for illegal streaming services users. IP adresses are not stored on servers on the long-run and if the police should request a list, it’s only after a considerable amount of time. Beware however premium users; if you are paying a fee on one of those platforms, your IP will definitely be stored on the server, thereby increasing the risks of getting caught.
If you want to protect your traffic and use all services privately, you can get a VPN in Germany that will hide everything from anyone else. You can use NordVPN for example, which often considered one of the bests out there, especially since streaming works well with it and you connect up to 6 devices with one account (switch to English in the footer if needed).
Do they really have the right to claim so much? Can it really go to court?
There is no clear set of rules that puts a figure for infringements. The figure is entirely up to them within a certain range. We will see later how it is possible to bargain it down a little. Although they do threaten to take this to court, it’s relatively quite rare it happens. It mostly an argument to scare you into paying fast and without asking any questions.
However, make sure to see the difference between the different fees mentioned in this document. There are fees for sending you this Abmahnung, the fine mentioned as repair for their clients (more details on that later in the post). Also note that a law passed in 2013 should limit Abmahnung and legal claim fees to 150€ & 450€ respectively.
Offense repairs on streaming cases are much lower, making it less profitable for law firms to pursue; legal claim fees remain the same as for P2P cases but the fine per film can only be 5 to 10€.
Is this a real German law firm and not a scam? Do they really work with the copyright holders?
Now this is a little tricky because it is true that some scam letters (e.g from non-existing “Kroner & Kollegen” law firm) have been sent around and they are not entitled to represent the copyright holder. However, most often than not, the warning letter for illegally downloading copyrighted content is a real one coming from a real law firm who represents company like Viacom, Sony, 20th Century Fox, etc.
Here are some law firms sending cease and desist letters in Germany (hat-tip to Raychenon.com):
Auffenberg, Petzhold, Witte; Baumgarten & Brandt; Bindhart , Fiedler, Zerbe; CSR; Daniel Sebastian; Denecke Haxthausen & Partner; Fareds; Johannes Rübenach; Kornmeier & Patner; Lihl; Lutz Schroeder; Marcus Meier; Marko Schiek; Negele; Nümann und Lang; Paulus; Philipp Marquort; Rainer Munderloh; Rasch; Reichelt, Klute, Aßmann; Sasse und Patner; Schalast & Patner; Scheuermann,Westerhoff, Strittmatter; Schutt, Waetke; SKW Schwarz; U+C; Vahrenwald & Kretschmer; Waldorf Frommer; WeSaveYourCopyrights; Winterstein; Zimmermann & Decker.
How to spot a fake cease and desist letter for copyright infringement in Germany
Beware of the following signs, they can be pointers. In doubt, always consult with a professional.
- You only get an email: Also this is possible is some other field of law, illegal file sharing cases always come by post.
- It doesn’t come with a cease and desist letter: If it’s only asking for money with obscure legal jargon, it’s worthless,
- Fictitious law firm or no contact details to be found.
- A bank account located outside of Germany.
- The copyrighted material is not explicitly mentioned or described, nor is their client clearly named.
Rule number 1: Don’t panic and don’t send anything back
What is this “Unterlassungserklärung” document and what should I do with it?
Together with the warning letter establishing your identity and the content, there is another document called “Unterlassungserklärung“. This is the German equivalent to a cease and desist letter that the law firm wants you to sign to prove that you recognize yourself to be guilty of the accusations. Do not sign this document and do not send it back! By doing so, you would give more legal ground against you and would have to pay.
How are fees structured? What is the legal basis behind them?
Law firms in Germany are entitled by law to claim compensation on behalf of their clients for the infringement. The total number you might see on your letter is based on 3 different legal concepts:
- Costs based on the cease and desist order (Unterlassungsansprüche)
- Costs based on the actual compensation itself (Schadensersatzansprüche)
- Costs based on processing fees involved in dealing with your case (Aufwendungsersatzansprüche)
Working under the assumption that a signed cease and desist letter will prevent further infringements by the culprit, the law firm will generally only press compensation and reimbursement charges.
Together, these generally amount to around about 1.000€ per file. The processing fees are
calculated based on the compensation and cease and desist charges, while also being regulated by the German lawyers remuneration act (Rechtsanwaltsvergütungsgesetz, RVG). As a rule, the processing fees typically end up in a range included between 100€ & 300€.
Here is a example based on real-life practices from a well known law firm. In most cases:
- The total number is 935,8€.
- 700€ is for compensation.
- 235€ is for processing fees.
Now tell me: what can I do about this warning letter
There are different courses of action you can take at this point and i guess it depends on how bold you are and how good you are dealing with a possibly nerve-racking situation.
1- Pay-up right away
Let’s be honest now: those letters are an attempt at scaring you off and pressuring you into paying the full amount. This is even more impressive for a foreigner that doesn’t understand German completely. You shouldn’t panic and pay-up without asking any questions as there is room for negotiation. After all, you have to remember that it is not the government sending you those letters; the fine hasn’t been set by law.
2- Do nothing
While curling yourself in a ball and hoping that it will go away might not seem like the mature and adult thing to do, this reaction might still have a few arguments for it. Reacting this way is basically counting on the weaknesses of the system; those German law firms are very busy you see. They send hundred of thousands of warning letters a year to the average Joe for illegally downloading movies in Germany. They know very well that they won’t be able to handle each individual case manually so they might no simply follow-up, should you not reply to their first Abmahnung.
Then again, there is also a good chance that you might be part of the chosen ones for whom it doesn’t go away. If they do follow-up, additional legal fees might occur and it can be enforced. This is a risk you take if you pick this option.
Doing nothing is a viable option but it will often back-fire at you
3- Hire a lawyer
They come at you with legal weaponry? It’s then maybe time to gear up with some of your own and get in touch with a lawyer. Judging from the cases i have heard around me and in forums around the internet, this seems to be a popular option. Sure, it’s not cheap but you might in turn save hundreds of euros for negotiating a cheaper fine or even not paying it all.
What a lawyer will do is to send a modified cease and desist letter in your behalf that basically says that you are sorry for what happened but you still don’t recognize that you are guilty and that you won’t do that in the future.
Fees for doing so with German lawyers specialized in copyright infringement cases can vary, but you have to pay costs upfront without any guarantee.
4- Use a mediation service
All options listed before are all valid and should be carefully considered. However, they come with one drawback: you spend a fair chunk of cash, time or stress without any certainty on the legal outcome of your case.
Another option could be to turn to a mediation service like the one provided by Abmahnungshilfe. A platform like this is specializing in reducing the amount of the claim. They work with expert mediators and lawyers in
this field of law. Their offering is really well tailored to foreigners:
- They provide this service digitally, 100% in English.
- It is success-based. This means you only pay something if your case is settled successfully and permanently.
- They check your case for free.
- Their fee is transparent (max 30% of the total savings made on the original claim amount).
It is about finding the right strategy for you, whether that is negotiating a settlement with the law firm or fighting back with a lawyer. As it is success-based and the first check is for free, you can still decide to take one of the other options listed here, after they checked you case. It is worth trying out by using the form on the homepage.
I wish you good luck in fighting against the odds. I hope this post helped you understand your situation. Let me know in the comments if you have questions.
Bastien
Also, if you want to use your internet access as you want, don’t forget you can fully hide your traffic with a good VPN like NordVPN. Considered one of the bests on the market, safe and easy to use, it works well for this kind of use too.
Warning letters for torrenting – FAQ
There are no rules defining the probability that you could get caught, and also no way to tell the delay with which you can receive this letter. Only time can tell.
This post is about torrenting and streaming. I cannot answer about any other means or technologies. Current tools available to law practices to track data transfers is only applicable to torrent nodes and streams right now.
Disclaimer: this post is purely for informative purpose about what to do when caught illegal file sharing in Germany. It doesn’t replace the counselling for a professional attorney. Please make sure you fully understand your situation before taking any action. Better safe than sorry <3 <3 <3.
Also a big thank you to Oliver from the Frankfurt Expat blog, whose post on the legality of streaming helped me fine tune some details of this article. If you are living near or around Frankfurt, check his blog out, it’s a good read to discover the city.
Hi,
I fucked up solid.
I moved to Germany 2 months ago, I didnt know about this law, but I didnt have bad intentions or intent to share the movies….
I’ve watched around 30 movies so far over Popcorn Time….and got 2 letters….One is for around 500 euros, and the second for 900….
My salery is 1300 euros….
Wish me luck guys….. 🙁
Good luck !
hi Bastian
Recently I have downloaded an ebook pdf from politicalavenue.com.
Could you please tell me if I am in trouble..?
Thank you so much
Hi Mark Bernt. Please read the note towards the end of the article again.
Hi, is it illigal the downloading from we transfer ?
Hi George, using WeTransfer is not illegal.
Hello, I got cought for downloading and I received the letter with the fine. I payed without asking anything because I got scared and in the document was written that after paying and sending back the declaration of discontinuance all claims would have been cleared and the disputed completely over. So I did it. Do you think I’ll be ok now? Because I’m your article you say not to send it back but just pay. In the letter is stated to do both thing to be cleared of charges though.
Thank you.
Hi Claudia. In the article, i wrote to not send back anything and also not to pay anything. I can’t tell you if you are going to ok now without seeing the letter but you are probably going to be fine if all the conditions were fairly laid out in the letter.
If i watch movies and episodes online and dont download them they will never catch me right ? Is it the safest way ?
Hi Yazan. I cannot tell you what the safest way, i can only tell you what’s legal or not.
hi Bastian i downloaded a video from youtube on the deturl platform .. is that considered illegal ?
Hi there. Is it illegal? Yes.
I just arrived in Cologne and I’m staying for 4 months, I am a big football fan and I watch football nearly everyday, but in Germany, since I know about the rule I don’t dare to watch it but my question is, can I be punished for consulting the site I’m watching football on? I never downloaded anything, it doesn’t upload/download anything, it’s live football, can I get a fine for that? Thanks
Hi David. The answers are clearly written in the post. Read it again please.
Hello.
I live in a WG and I’m leaving Germany after 15 days and Yesterday i have received a letter 950 euros for a movie I watched 3 weeks ago and i have watched 4 more movies the same way before receiving this letter (torrent) but didn’t receive a letter about them yet. Can they still make me pay from another country in the EU. And what would happen if my landlord receive more letters after i leave, can they still charge it to me?
Hi Ahmed. You have committed something wrong during your time in Germany and for this yes, if they find you, they might chase you in other countries.
Hi! Thank you all for the advices in the post and in the comments. I read a lot of them, but no one of the cases is similar to mine.
I was in Germany few days ago and, totally ignoring the situation and using my host’s wifi-connection, I downloaded two episodes of a TV-serie (less than 600MB in total). The source was the site http://openload.co/… and I used the browser Chrome from my tablet.
In your opinion, am I at risk of getting a fine or am I safe? I suppose that that peculiar site does not use a p2p connection, right? Was it a direct connection or did I uploaded something accidentally by downloading that files?
Thank you for the support
Hi there. If i’m correct, this website is a streaming platform. So refer to that section in the post.
Yes, it is a video storage implemented with a streaming platform. So you can stream or download directly the files…
I have not streamed the file, but downloaded it from the source.
how about if i download a free online game ? ( hearthstone) its that ilegal or ?
Hi Mihail. Dude, if the license allows free downloads, it is not illegal.
Hi! i downloaded some music and game in germany 2 months ago. still did not get any letters. is there a chance that i will not get letter? how much time it takes them to catch me and send letter?
Hi Shahin, as mentioned in the comments and on the post already, there is no rule for this so it is impossible to give you an answer.
I downloaded a video song from a website hdvidz.in which i got after searching in google..will i be sued for this?? Cos i m new to germany
Hi Varun. This post is about getting caught for using Torrents or streaming. Direct download for a server are not concerned by these rules.
I illegally downloaded an album 3 years ago and got a letter. Hired a lawyer and was told if I don’t hear from them in a year, then everything was fine. 3 years later, I get a later saying they will take me to court if I don’t pay 4,000€ in 14 days!!!! But I received news of this letter a week later, so in actuality I have one week to come up with 4000€! What would happen if I hired a lawyer again? Would I be taken to court?
Hi Meili. Hire a lawyer again, that’s probably your best bet for now.
What happened in the end??
Hi I use Amazon Prime and Netflix paid account to stream movies or seasons but I wish to know if it is okay to watch the full movies on youtube and also the streaming websites for free. Thank you for your answer in advance. Happy New Year 2018!
Hi Prakash. All the answers you need are in the post.
Hi, I was visiting a frend in Germany and used her WI-FI to download a movie but the movie only downloaded 3% when she told me it was illegal so i stopped the download and deleted the torrent from my phone. Can I still be charged for illegal download although I didn’t download the movie in full?
Hi Marko. Please read the post again. The dowloading part doesn’t matter. Only the uploading part. But yes, it doesn’t matter how much you shared.
Hai, I come just for a visit in Germany and I didnt know the law here in Germany until today. I have downloaded a few movies here, the reasons is because I came from a country where downloading illegal things are normal. Is there any chance I could write an apology letters to the authority.
Hi Feris. As said many times in the comments and in the post. There is no way to assess the probability to receive a letter.
Hi,
I have question is that I am not using torrent to download, but I’m using IDM (Internet Download Management) which is a site grabber software to download some movies. So can I get caught by using this software?
Hi Oscar. I don’t know about this software. This post is only about streaming and Torrent clients.
Hello there! i have a question. I downloaded a porn video directly from the website ..from the wifi of a restaurant. Do you think I am gonna have a problem? The boss of the restaurant knows me. I am a bit anxious thats why j am asking.. thanks a lot..
Hi Kostas. This comment is to unclear to do a reply.
Hello, the ish is i currently live in a country were you can download and upload illegally and i currently run an illegal downloading site for games were i upload games to sites like rapidgator and mediafire and share the link to my users. Im currently planning on relocating to germany soon so i was wondering if my business could be continued there. Also, i use a vpn when downloading from file sharing sites and uploading to mine. How safe am i?
Hi Emma. I cannot give you advice on this particular topic i’m sorry.
Hello, I have a question: I received a fine “Abmahnung” of 915 euros because they claimed I downloaded a movie from 21:04:10 until 21:04:52. The fact is I downloaded the movie this summer on the 08/08 from another country but it remained on utorrent. I resent a letter to them stating that I did’t do such thing and that I don’t accept the charges. Do you think I should do anything else? Should I contact a lawyer or is there anything else I could do by myself?
Thank you in advance.
Hi Simona, all the advice i can give is in the post.
Hi, thank you for the valuable information.
I recently got a 1500EUR fine to pay. The situation: I downloaded some episodes in Mexico to watch on my way back to Berlin and forgot to delete and close the torrent when in Germany (I don’t fully understand how this works so…)
The worst part, without realising it, I was walking around with my laptop and now 2 more houses (families that I visit for babysitting) got the bill as well 🙁
Is it considerate 3 different cases/bills? Or can I take care of the situation as one? (I’m hoping so…)
I’m seeing a lawyer thursday but I’m very very anxious and embarrassed about the situation of involving others. So any information you could give me on this, would be gold. Thank you in advance! Cheers
Hi Mariana. You already made a good first step by getting in touch with a lawyer; listen closely to what they say. I can’t replace the advice of a professional.
Hi. Should I contact the legal firm who have issued the letter? I recieved a letter today and was going to contact them. Thanks
Hi Tom, i would not try to contact them without proper legal advice.
Hello,
I received two fines for two movies, 915 euros each movie, the fines came with the landlord name on them, not my name, I told the landlord that it was me, then he gave the case to his lawyer, the lawyer reduced it to 750 euros for each movie. Now the landlord asked me if I want to pay him this and he will pay it by his name or to take the case to my name and pay it myself.
I was thinking if there is a way that the landlord can say that the wifi is shared between the tenants and them and they don’t know exactly who downloaded the movies, then maybe he would just get fined less. Then I can pay what he paid.
Please tell me what you think.
Thank you
Hi Haithm, i can’t tell you anything that is more trustworthy than a lawyer’s professional opinion.
Hello, are there anyway they can track downloads servers from other countries? not torrent but countries that do no follow copyrights rules
Hi Payam. This post is about applicable law in Germany, not other countries. What outside of Germany is not the same jurisdiction.
I am new in Germany and have downloaded 4 movies and 6 episodes of one drama serial with torrent. I just got a letter with 915 euro fine for one movie. My question is i have to pay on each file i download or this is just one time.
What was the end? How much did you pay?
Hello
My brother from other country uploaded software in google drive and i download it, and after going through your blog i am afraid now .Is there any chance of getting fine ??
Hi Kapil. Still illegal but it’s not torrents or streaming is it.
hello what if we downloaded the some crack files directly from the chrome ? do they charge for that
Still illegal but you can’t get caught the same way you do with torrents.
So, i downloaded music from SnapTube and some online converter it’s illegal? And my friend which it is from another country send me a hack for a game via Skype, it’s that legal?
Hi Daniel, both are clearly illegal but the question; can you get caught? With direct downloads from servers, the chance is very low.
Hello
Im student in germany my roommate is the responsible for the WIFI we got a warning letter to pay 915euro for downloading movie
How we can know in which laptop this movie has been downloaded? Thank you
Hi Abed, it’s not possible to know on the information provided by the letter. Only the owner of the internet access (who signed the contract) is responsible before the law, he is identified by the IP address.
Hello, thank you for this article.
I have recently downloaded few pictures to use in presentation in university but there was no copyright thing issued upon them. I usually also download pictures from websites that give free downloads if l credit them. Are these two cases also problems and would l be fined for it?
Hi Nora. This article gives info on video and music files downloaded via Torrent or Streaming. Images are another topic; credit is best practice for images yes.
Hi i want to ask if i download something from other country website is it still posible that i get caught? And how do u know that u are being caught except that u got the warning letter?
Thankyou
Hi Alvina. German practices do not represent coypright holders everywhere in the world as laws are different everywhere.
Hallo,
I’m sorry I just want to know if I downloaded couple of videos using opera browser is it considered to be illegal and will get a fine?
Thanks in advance
Hi Daniel, it is like the rest illegal yes. Will you get caught? It is unlikely as direct downloads from servers are much harder to track.
Opera used to include a torrent implementation, so be very careful, as Opera might upload the very videos you were downloading. However, the page and URL will usually say ‘torrent’ (which you should avoid if there is copyright on the videos). If it doesn’t say ‘torrent’, it is a direct download and Bastien’s answer applies.
Hello Bastien i am in desperate need of a good word.
I recieved today a letter that i have to pay 915 euros for a movie that i downloaded by torrent.
But the letter showed that the movie i had downloaded it’s from 2 months ago so if i downloaded 20 movies until now? Can i recieve a letter that says i have to pay a huge sum for all of them? I have downloaded from public torrent site piratebay.
I am afraid to don’t have to give all those money 915 for that one movies and the next month i may have to pay 20.000 euro for all shit i have downloaded from piratebay and other public websites.
Is it a lower chance of being caught if i download the movies from private tracker sites like filelist.ro ?
I will go for a lawyer to ask for assistence better than pay or doing nothing.(if i pay that much money i won’t have money left for food next month)
Is it possibly to go to jail if i don’t pay?
Thanks alot and sorry for my bad english i hope you can give a piece of advice…
Hi Gabriel, I’m afraid i can’t answer your question precisely because we don’t know if you got caught or not. If you get caught, there it will be an additional offense yes. You can in theory go to jail, but i don’t think it’s actually ever happened; it can only end up in court. The website where you find your torrents don’t matter because the same torrent can be listed in different websites and different torrents can use the same trackers and nodes.
Thanks for your reply.
I will pay this problem. Yes i got caught because it gave me precisely info what torrent and date…
But what do you advice me to do if another one comes with a bigger sum or the same sum because i know i downloaded about 20 movies and i live in fear to stay in Germany because i work to give them money…
They will track me if i will leave to England? (and leave problem unpaid here)
I am waiting for your answer.
Hi Gabriel, i suggest that your lawyer should include a clause that whatever you pay now for the first offense is clearing you of any other wrongdoings in the future. That might protect you. Can they track you in England? Possibly. Will they spend money and time to chase you down there? Not so likely in my opinion.
so did you get caught for the 20 movies you downloaded Gabriel ?
How did you end?
and to me it is the same as yours. How did your case go, did the problem resolve and what did you do? gabriel
Just curious as to if this includes a jail broken Amazon fire stick for example, plugged in to the HDMI on a fancy tv?
Hi there. No idea; are you using Torrent clients or using illegal streams with it?
Hello
This might sound stupid but I’m really working myself over it right now. I was watching something on a stream website and all of a sudden an add pops up. I clicked to remove it and in a matter of a second I got redirected into another tab and it started downloading some random Adobe Software setup on it’s own. I canceled it right away but I really wanna know if something can happen because of this?
Thanks in advange
Hi Don. This page is the wrong place to ask. What happened has nothing to do with it.
Hi Bastien,
Thanks for writing this super informative article! A friend of mine went to Berlin half a year ago and stayed at an airbnb place. A month later, he received a message from the host that he got fined for downloading a TV show at the time my mate stayed at his place.. He is sure he didn’t download anything. But what if my mate, by accident, did download the show. Can this be proven? I know IP is linked to adres. But is it possible for the law firms to receive more detailed information about who downloaded something on a network?
Thanks in advance mate!
Hi Tory. This is only just opinion but i think yes, more details can be passed on, especially the time and date it happened, which can fit with the time your friend stayed there.
Hello.
I’ve heard before from my German teacher that downloadin is illegal in Germany so I’m so carefull about it! But my question is about the photos on the internet. For example can I save (download) a photo from google, Tumblr or Pinterest?
Hi Sarah, any wrongful use of copyrighted material is by nature illegal. The real question is rather how can you get caught?
Hi Bastien. I was living in a country where you can download torrents with not worry. I came last week to Germany and when i connected to the internet muy qtorrent automaticly pops up. I turn it off and removed it from my computer. It was like 30 seconds to minute time that qtorrent was on, i wasnt downloading anything, but i think one file was there for seeding. Im not sure if there was a connection with torrent or i was turn it off on time. Can you tell me please if i can geth cought for that, becouse im very worried. Thank you for your answer
Hi Toma. Like for for all the others asking here; there is no way for me to tell that in advance. You just have to wait and see.
Toma did you get a fine for those 30 seconds?
Hi. Thanks for your article. I’m new to Germany and I downloaded an episode after 3 days of it coming out. They sent me a letter just like the one like the Deadpool movie but they’re suing me for 620€ for just one episode and the lawyer company is Waldorf Frommer. Is there anyway possible that I don’t have to pay anything or little? Thanks again.
Hi Nina. I know you are worried and you want advice but all your answers are in the post.
Hi Bastien,
Thank you for your very informative article. I recently downloaded a PDF of a copyrighted German text book from a site fast24.ir. Now I’m pretty scared about being prosecured. Do you think this is something I should be worried about however, as I don’t think it that I actually shared the book so my info wouldn’t be stored the same way tormenting would? If I were to be prosecuted, how much would I be fined do you know?
Also, I did this using the cellular data on my mobile phone- which is still registered in my home country. Do you think that makes a difference?
Again, thank you!
Hi Ellen. Direct download cannot be tracked the same way as torrents nodes, it’s just an opinion, but there is very little to be scared about.
But what about pictures? Is it also illegal to save a picture from tumblr or pinterest?
Hi Emma, in general yes, it is illegal to use pictures without the agreement of its owner; but who is there to track that?
Has anyone really used VPNs to download files from Torrent?
I’ve got some old torrent trackers left on my PC, do you think I can load them in uTorrent or will I then be screwed aswell?
Hi Ruben, don’t load them in, i think you are still at risk.
I have also been watching some anime online from this website: http://jkanime.co/
Is that ilegal too? Am I totally screwed?!! I just got here on Monday and had absolutely no idea!
If this is streaming, then it’s probably fine.
Hello Bastien!
I got here on Monday and did not know absolutely anything about this. Yesterday I download through soulseek a whole 20-song album and uploaded 2 Bill Evans songs to YouTube. I instantly got 2 emails from YouTube that the videos were now blocked because of copyright (though they appear on the website).
My question is:
– Will I get sued because of my uploads to YouTube?
– Will I get sued because of downloading from Soulseek (its a P2P program) or can I use Soulseek?
Thanks man! Now I’m scared to death!!!!
Hi Santiago. Can’t answer for the YouTube case and i’d say that you take risks with Soulseek. Both were illegal of course.
My Facebook Friend had sent me a link of a video from a Facebook Group. Upon clicking, it is one of the latest Hollywood Film. I closed it immediately because of fear of being caught. Is it okay to watch it?
Well done for the anonymous email. ;). It is legal and moral to watch it? no. Can you get caught: very likely no, when it’s not torrents.
Hello.I live in Germany,But i want to download one old game without torrent,if i download without torrent but from another website,everything its okay or im gonna have trouble ?Thanks :d
Hi Tens, Please read the post again. The answer is there.
Hello, can I download music from onlinevideoconverter.com? And can I download movies that already published 1-2 years ago from a website (not torrent, streamt, pirate, etc.) Just a normal website like watchfullmovies, pinoymovies, openlood…
Hi Gamyy, can you do that without getting caught for now? Yes. Is it still illegal? Yes.
Hi, I live in Stuttgart and NEVER download or upload anything. But I see movies and tv shows from my country quite often. For your knowledge am I at risk of getting a fine for this or am I safe? Or in alternative do you have any official reference to suggest me in order to get very precise information about this? Thanks for any help you might provide
Hi Laura. This is a vague question because you give no information on the channel you use to watch these shows. I can’t answer that question.
Hi, will there be a problem if i download games from google drive links in germany?
Direct downloads from a server cannot be tracked.
Hello , I am new to Germany , i have a seedbox with vpn , it is legal to watch movies streaming with plex or downloading direct from seedbox ?
I am sorry, i’m not knowledgeable with seedbox, but if you have a VPN to protect your traffic’s privacy, it should be fine.
First of all thank you for this article.
I do have a VPN service but a few days ago i realized that when it switch the IP, the app wasn’t set to “Killswitch” so between this time they could track me.
Today my nightmare started and i received a letter saying that in the end of July i used P2P and got caught. I have two weeks deadline to pay 950€.
Also i am terrified because since there my torrent was on the whole time, and i have several movies!
Im incredibly afraid that in the following weeks will rain letters.
Reading this article i could calm down a bit and once more i thank you for that.
Hi,
I want to ask what if I download movies from other’s google drive.
Will I have a huge chance of being charged?
No.
Hi – simply downloading from a google searched server is dangerous? Google still lets you search for files (avi, mkv, mp3, mp4) on servers…Without sharing/streaming/uploading is just a file (save as…). What about add ons like VidoeDownload…- are they traceable?
Hi Mirka. It seems that direct download is not traceable like streaming or Torrents can be.
Hi. Great article. I will fight back those letters. Question. Do you know or can recommend a good lawyer in Konstanz or know a site I can find lawyers by region that deals with this cases? Any recommendation would help. Thanks
Hi Caio. I’m working on something like this but not recommendation yet sorry. Good luck.
Hello
i have a question… 3 years ago i was living in Germany for a short period and the owner of the house where i was living got a fine for something i had downloaded while i was in her house.
At that time we settled it with the help of some specialized lawyers and we paid just a small fine and she said that it was not her fault.
The problem is that now after 3 years, she received a “Mannbescheid” saying that she has to pay even more than what they requested 3 years ago!
As far as i understood now she could do a “wiederspruch” where she will claim that it was not her but me who did the download or she has to pay the fine (or go to court).
I am not living in Germany at the moment so the lawyer said that there is a very small chance that Waldorf Frommer will come after me if i sign the document that says it was all my fault.
But i’m not sure if it is good for me to officially take all the blame ? should not be enough that the owner of the place demonstrate that she was not in Germany at that time?
On the other hand, if she decides that she will pay the fine, can she start a legal action against me to recover the money of the fine?
thanks in advance
Hi Adam. I won’t risk myself into giving you an advice for this as this is the first case of this nature i encounter. You already have professional help from a lawyer, so it’s probably a trustworthy advice. If you are unsure, you might have to hire your own lawyer for a counter-analysis.
Hey Adam, what happened next, did you do the Widerspruch? I’m having a very similar case right now.
I’m interest too in knowing the disclose of this case. I know a similar case. What happened?
Hi,
This is wonderful thread, great help for the foreign students like me.
I have a doubt, I have been using IDM (internet download manager), we can download video files while they are streaming, NEVER USED ANY KIND OF TORRENT DOWNLOADS.
Will that be a problem..? I used IDM to download Youtube songs and few episodes TV series.
And a general question, in the worst case within how many days of download the letter usually comes..? I am worried and confused please help
Hi Swaroop, it should not be a problem.
Hello,
I’ve been here in Germany for only two weeks and I didn’t know it’s illegal to download here. I downloaded an episode of one of hbo tv series but not a very popular one. It is quite new, so here’s my question. Is it possible to check if there’s any law firm represeting the exact movie rights I have downloaded. How much time does it USUALLY take them to track me down? What is more important: how much I shared or what movie I downloaded. I mean if it’s not a popular one is it possible that they won’t track me? Thank you
Hi Olivia. Like mentioned in the other comments; it is impossible to predict if you will get caught or/and when the letter will arrive. Common sense may indicate that law firms are more active on more famous IPs, because people are downloading them more, but who knows? You can check the list of firms in the post and check who they represent.
Hi
what if downloading of skype one film? I upload to my sis I live in latinamerica and she is in Germany I just sent a disney movie for my niece links are only 30 days uhhh thanks for answer me.
Hi Maria. Skype conversations cannot be tracked that way. I don’t think it should be an issue.
Hi, thank you so much for the information, I just found out about it and I downloaded some things. I don’t know if I got caught, I really hope not, but I wanted to know in any case. If I get caught.. how much time till I receive the letter? I used a hot sopt that I paid with my credit card (not german card) and I didn’t put an adress. How will they know where to send the letter?
Hi there Anglik. There is no way to know if and when you will receive a letter. If you didn’t put an adress i guess you are fine.
i accidentally left a torrent on when coming from my country for barely 1 min and then switched it off immediately i have no idea if i was tracked but i want to know is if i was do they leave the wifi not working immediately
This question is really not well put together. I don’t understand it.
Hi!
Thank you so much for posting this.
I just received the exactly same letter like on the picture. But the format seems slightly different. In the letter doesn’t state any information of how much I should pay.
And I got it because of Popcorn Time.
May I know what did u respond when you have it? And how much you paid?
Thanks!
Hi, how long did it take for you to receive the letter?
Hello I have also received the famous letter of 915€ for each movie.. 2 in fact.. Two movies that I had in my popcorntime app. And I didn’t even saw them.. I had the app open. I download the movies yes but not in Germany… In Portugal. And there you don’t have these problems… And that is the worst thing for me.. Because in the letter the time the download was made was from 12:11:16 to 12:11:47… So cmon… 29sec? I was connect 29sec I didn’t download anything.. (In this country) and I have to pay that amount?
What you guys think? If I go to a Lawyer I can still have a chance to pay a very small amount? Because even it is 200€ is not cheap for me..
Hi Flavio, as mentioned in the post, downloading is not a problem but the uploading part is. During those few seconds, you probably shared some bits of data to other users (it’s still a Torrent app). Possible decisions for you to take are also already listed in the post.
Hi Flavio
What do you did on you case ?
Hello Fábio, I know a similar case. How did you handled this? I’m interested in knowing. Thanks.
In a nut shell I am staying in a guest house and a few weeks ago I used Popcorn time, and watched 3 or 4 movies. My landlord received a letter a couple of weeks ago and this was signed by the landlord and I agreed to pay the fine. On the letter it was signed that we must never do it again, which I have not since receiving the letter. The problem is I could receive more letters for the 3 or 4 movies I watched on Popcorn Time, is it possible that these other potential letters could be written off as I have honoured the initial letter and have not used Popcorn time since?
The next problem I will have is I will not have enough money to pay these fines if they make me pay for the remaining downloads.
Thanks
Scott
Hi Scott. In my opinion it simply depends whether or not you will get caught again and if you do; whether or not those movies are intellectual properties represented by the same law firm which caught you in the first place. You have made a deal with only this firm in particular and this deal won’t probably matter to other law firms.
i downloaded cracked copy for Windows 7 from site like mediafire and installed the windows copy with out problems
am i in trouble ?
I come from Morocco and i can there download whatever i want and this is new thing to me in germany
Hi Ahmad, if MediaFire is a direct download platform, then it seems that even though it’s still illegal, there is no chance you can get caught.
I have almost finished downloaded an episode of GoT (1.2gb) and at 90% I noticed I have my VPN offed. Now I am scared :s Will I immediately get a fine after this one stupid mistake 🙁
What is the normal period for them to send a letter/fine to you?
Hi there. As mentioned elsewhere in the comments; time period is difficult to predict; too many factors evolved.
Have u received a letter yet?
Hi,Thank you so much for your post!!!!
I was mostly writing signature and sending back Unterlassungserklärung!!!
In my case,,,,, My Airbnb guests downloaded illegal file(drama),and they already admitted it,(besides I was not in Germany at that time)
so I sent the letter to the company (WALDORF FROMMER) to explain my situation.
Then they sent me the new bill again that was discounted 560Euro t0 400Euro.
I wondered if I still had a responsibility to pay the fine(even though it is obviously that I didn’t download it).
So I called them and asked,but they said “You have to pay the fine because you’re the owner of the connection,after that you can ask the guest to pay the cost!The deadline is next week.If you don’t send back “Unterlassungserklärung”,we also can make it(the fine) higher.”
So I was really upset,,,, (After that I found this web site!!!Thankfully!!!)
Now I’m planning to consult at “Verbrauchezentrale”.If so ,I can’t send back “Unterlassungserklärung” by the deadline.
Should I ask them to extend the deadline ???Or Can I just leave it???
How do you think???
Hi Kyu. The problem with your case is that this firm is definitely going to follow-up on you now that you have shown concern. Remember that they try to pressure you. It’s better to get help qualified help for that Verbraucherzentrale, even if you can’t send anything back before the deadline. The “fine” they send you can still be negotiated even after that deadline. (Please have someone professional confirm this asap).
Thank you so much for your reply.
I asked the” Verbrauchezentrale” when I could have an appointment.
They have available hour for my case only on Monday (9:00~13:00).
And I got appointment 3weeks later.(Because I have important appointments on next and next next Monday ,for my extending VISA and my baby-delivery )
I’m worried about if it is too late.
If you have another suggestion in addition to consulting at Verbrauchezentrale, I’d like to know that.(For example ,which kind of specialist should I consult with?Do you know some public office or service that I can consult about it?)
*I really thank you and your website.Without it,I couldn’t try to do anything and I really had no idea!!!!!Thank you again !!!!!
Hello,
Thank you for this article. I have received the famous fine asking me to pay 915 Euro for downloading a movie. If I ignore them and they choose me to continue with the case, will I receive an alert before there backfire ? if yes what’s the delay .
Thank you
Hi Ali. There is usually a second warning but i cannot guarantee it. I also cannot let you know what the delay would be.
How long did it take for to you get the letter? A few days? A week? A month?
Is chances for me getting busted is higher??
Coz i dowlaod some songs and rest get automatcally download because of internet speed may be. Still If i will be responsible for it coz i downloads had been made with my handset??
Or nothing would happend because both us is innocent as neither me had any idea about the laws as i’m tourist here for some weeks only nor she had any idea about downloads.
Hi there. It’s impossible to know if you were busted or not. You will soon know if your friend receives a letter. If she does, as mentioned in the post, you can take the blame on yourself via a lawyer’s letter. The fact that you both had no idea doesn’t change anything if you are caught.
Hi, I came back from abroad and realized my torrent client was still on when starting my computer… with around 10 latest movies in seed line.
I have shut down the net in like 5 minutes… and cleared my computer from the torrent software. Do you think this 5 minutes would be enough to track me down, or am I on the safe side? I never intended to share here in Germany…
Thanks.
B
Hi Balazs. Hard to say. My opinion is that the chances are very slim you’d receive a letter, but they still exist. You will just have to wait and see.
Yeah, I hope. Thanks. Do you have experience with private servers?
(My files were shared within a closed community of my country)
And could you confirm my belief (based on previous cases) that 0.000 ratio means no data was shared back/uploaded which means I can be relieved from this frustration? 🙂 Thank you
I don’t have any experience with private servers but in my opinion, a closed community is safer than open torrent nodes.
Hi
I was recently visiting a friend in Germany – he’s 87 years old and currrently poorly in Hospital.
Whilst at his house my British laptop appears to have been using UTorrent in the background and sharing 3 episodes of 24 Legacy. I already have these episodes legally at home on my TIVo, but just wanted to watch them on the plane on my way to Germany.
My friend is really worried as he’s received a letter from Waldorf Frommer suing him for a total of around 3,000 euros.
I 100% accept this blame, but don’t see the issue as I already have the episodes on my TV at home?
Surely there should have to be some warning or block on UTorrent first?
I’ll contact a solicitor as recommended above, but what would you guess I should expect the outcome of this to be?
I want to take this away from my friend as he is too poorly to have to worry about thisZ
Thanks
Hi Daniel. You can take the blame on yourself for sure. A lawyer will help you in doing that, while reducing the fine down. Concerning the fact that you already own the original material; i don’t think it will make a difference since you still shared and distributed an illegal copy of these episodes via your torrent client.
Hi Daniel, I am in a similar situation. On a recent visit to Germany I stayed with a friend. My phone has seeded two movies on a P2P that were downloaded in my home country. None of us were aware of this until the bill arrived. She has got a huge bill of 1681 Euros. She is a student with heft student loans and I do not want her to feel burdened. Were you able to sort it out? Were you able to reduce your liability or had to pay original demand? Any insights on how you dealt with it will be helpful.
Hi Daniel and Soho –> how did you resolve this? I recently had a friend from the UK stay over and when they turned their laptop on they uploaded material for ~40 seconds. 2 weeks later I received the letter from Waldorf Frommer and I’m wondering how to deal with it. Do you know what will happen if my friend accepts responsibility? I was wondering if it would end up being too much work for them to pursue someone who doesn’t actually live in Germany.
Hi Joe how did you settle it? I know a similar case. Can you tell me? Thanks
Hi
I heard from my friend that watching a online football cricket match and movie are now illegal in Germany. online streaming is now illegal ?? does he right?? and what is P2P nodes and client ??
Online streaming has been considered the same as file sharing by a court during a case in Germany. As for the rest: about p2p.
Can you send a reference that back this info up.
Is it a new rule? I never heard of people getting busted for streaming so far
It is a relatively new court decision from the EU Court, you can read more about that here and here.
Hi, very informative article, thank you!
But I still have two questions, first what if I downloaded the files from a public wi-fi in a public place, second what if I received the files in a privet e-mail or on my own drive (e.g. google drive), will they check these files too?
Hi Lavi. Just think about whether or not it is a P2P protocol or not and you will have your answer.
i have a question. what happens if i stopped downloading in the middle of downloading? (sorry for bad english)
Hi Filip. If you downloaded via Torrents, then your IP was still broadcasted over the P2P network and you might still get a letter.
I have the same problem. But I canceled download at 0.3% I will have to pay? Because i arrived to Germany only yesterday.
Hello , I am new to Germany and just learned that downloading is illegal. My question is, what happens if someone sends me an illegally downloaded songs on whatsapp ? thanks
Hi Rishi. It’s still an illegally downloaded song but nothing would happen since the conversation is encrypted.
Hi there – we’ve just received a letter from Waldorf and co re a few downloads. We’re with the military here in Germany until 2018 or so and our PC is used by visiting family members from the states…should we even both with a lawyer? thanks so much – very informative article, btw!
Hi Audrey. So this is a “public” PC in the military base available to all?
Thanks for writing this. It’s great to hear from others!
I was recently at my girlfriends Munich apartment, and her flat mate got a letter as a result of me watching 1 episode on popcorn time 🙁
It has become a heated debated, and I’m trying to take blame, and take persecution away from the owner. We have contacted 4 lawyers between us, but the German language barrier is so confusing
My question is, can I take blame, and pay for the full extend of the court, and not let him pay the 1600 euros and in doing so accepting guilt. Can he pass the blame to me, if I write a letter accepting guilt ?
Thanks
Hi James. Yes this is totally possible but you should still probably use a lawyer to reduce that fee by a lot. Good luck.
Hi ,,
I have become before yesterday a letter amount of 915 euro. If I ignore it then what can be happen? And if i take a anwalt against them then what can be happen ? I need help please anybody guide me.
Hi Mintu. Please read the post again, all answers and options are listed there.
Hi, i have the same problem with the letters. My question is, once you have replied with the modified cease and desist, what is the next step??
They send you more letters and you have to ignore them or what?
The thing is that I went to the lawyer with the free first consulting and she already wrote us the letter so we didn’t have to pay anything.
So in case I am right and with the modified cease and desist letter is enough, i wouldn’t have to pay anything, right
Thanks in advance
Hi Miguel, yes, usually a modified cease and desist can be enough but sometimes the law firm might try to reply again. It depends on each case.
Thank you so much, in the case they send another letter should I go to a lawyer again and they would make a deal or should i ignore them?
Hi Miguel. It’s entirely up to you. Can’t tell you what to do.
Hello Miguel, would appreciate if you can please refer to me the lawyer you consulted? I have received the same letter and and in search of a law firm which can assist me in going through this which won’t charge me an arm and a leg
Hello Bastien, this by far is the most short and clear blog I have come across. But hope your followers/readers can also share the law firms/lawyer they consulted? I have received the same letter and and in search of a law firm which can assist me in going through this which won’t charge me an arm and a leg. Thank you by the way for sharing all these info. really helpful!
Is a reputable VPN provider bulletproof in Germany? I’m going on an exchange program later this year and I do a lot of “pirating” from various sources.
Hi Leo. VPNs are good ways to protect your privacy. They work as well in Germany as anywhere else.
So did the VPN trick work for you? Cause I’m thinking of the same think but a friend of mine said that it won’t help you(
I need legal advice for this in Berlin. Can you recommend a lawyer?
Hi Max. This is an interesting request but i don’t have any recommendation. I will make research about this to be able to make recommendation in the future. Sorry about this and good luck.
Hello Bastien,
Thanks for the info! My sister (17) is currently making an exchange year in Rostock (we are from Costa Rica). She watched a movie with her host family via Popcorn Time, and nobody told her that she wasn’t suppose to do that. Last week, her family received the infamous letter. Her host mom sent a reply saying that she told my sister that watching movies on the internet was illegal (she didn’t tho), and that she was not going to pay the fine because it wasn’t her fault, and that my sister should do it. Her host mom wrote our adresse in Costa Rica in the letter, meaning that the firm should contact her via that address, so my question would be, what do you think we can do? should we wait until the firm answers that letter? or wait until they try to contact us in Costa Rica? or should we hire a lawyer via internet to help us solve the case? (btw, she made a typo in the address, and our mail system really sucks, so the letter has a 98% possibilities to get lost somewhere)
Hi Amelia. Unfortunately, i am not in capacity to advise you on the decision to make. It sounds like you understand what’s happening and what the risks are for the situation though. The host mum did right by unloading the fault onto her sister with this letter. It’s also probably fair to say that it’s an extra hassle for a lawyer company to pursue someone outside of the EU, compared to other cases. Waiting to see if the letter comes might be a good tactic, but again, this is just an opinion. You should look for professional advice if you have doubts about this.
Hi. A VPN Service Provider can help to stay anonymous in this case ?
Yes, a good VPN can help Lars.
Hi, i have also received a letter from Waldorf Frommer containing that i have downloads illegal movie on torrent , and the funny think is the download time is just 16 seconds and i real dont know who really download the movie and they fine me 915 euro.
the question is can be the IP address prove to clime on me ?
the have send me my IP address and some movie hashes could be this prove !
and i decided to not pay is it a good idea coincidentally i am also a refugee
Hi Habib. Please read again the post, it has already most of your answers. the IP address is sufficient ground in Germany yes. The fact that you are refugee plays no role in this.
Hello,
I would like to ask you about 2 things:
1- I have downloaded a song from a normal user in youtube on my iphone using a normal app, is that ok?
2- How many days do I need to wait until I receive the letter ? Even if you do not know the exact duration give me the approximate time please.
Thank you so much for your time 🙂
Hello Saif. It’s hard to say for sure but my opinion is that as long as there is no sharing/uploading, you are probably on the safe side and exposed to minimal risks. As for your 2nd question, i cannot reply as it depends on practices and cases. It should happen within a few weeks.
Hello,my name is Mickey and i am here in Germany one year,i have watched some movies online just streaming nothing like download or share or upload just straming via google on some websites no app no torrents etc.Is there any risk i m taking???Danke!!
Hello Mickey. The risks around streaming are also discussed in this post. Please refer to it.
Hey, I’m currently visiting my cousin in Germany and I watched some movies and to shows last few days on popcorn time. I didnt turn on the VPN and noticed a warning that “you are being monitored”. And I deleted the app at once. She has not received any letter yet. Is that possible that she won’t receive any letter in the future?
Hi Jennie. She may or may not receive letters in the future, there is no way for you or me to be able to tell right now. Wait and see.
Thanks so much for this page which we found in a panicked 10 minutes after receiving the letter and helped us clarify our options brilliantly.
Hi Simon
could you share your experience with us? what happened then?
Regards,
Naz
Hi,
Do you have any insights on sites like tvmuse where you can stream TV shows after they have aired?
Hi Shelley. Please refer to the part of the post where streaming is addressed to find your answers.
I came back from the UK and I didn’t realise a movie was in my torrent programme and it downloaded when I got back to my flat. My question is it definite that I will receive one of these letters?
Hi Ed. It is not definite but there is a fair chance you will receive one. Fingers crossed.
Hi Ed! Same thing happened to me, did you receive a letter in the end? Thanks
Hi,
I received the above mentioned letter 2 days back for downloading a movie through torrent. where the downloading duration is just 30 seconds. It has been just 3 weeks that i have come to Germany for studies and i have no way of paying such a hefty amount. please help me.. i speak very little German too.
Need your assistance on this.
Hi Prathibha. I’m sorry that you are in this situation. I am not a lawyer so i cannot offer further assistance than what is already in the post. I suggest you get in touch with one if you are worried.
Hi
My wife has a friend in Germany who has received one of these letters. Apparently he has asked a lawyer who said that he has the following options (other than paying up):
1. Ignore it
2. Reply denying any wrongdoing – this should elicit a counteroffer
3. Get someone who lives outside Germany (but within Europe, apparently) to declare that they made the downloads while visiting. Supposedly the law firm will not try to pursue anyone outside Germany.
My wife’s friend is considering option 3, with my wife making the declaration. This doesn’t sound like a great idea to me, and I’m concerned it could leave my wife exposed to possible issues (we are still in the EU for now, after all). Do you have any thoughts on this?
Hi Ben. That’s an interesting take on the issue from this lawyer. My knowledge wouldn’t allow me to challenge his recommendations. In my opinion though, option 2 and 3 are rather similar because instead of your wife’s friend replying, your wife is replying by saying that she didn’t know and will never do it again, also making a counter offer. Anyway, the lawyer is a lawyer so i guess he knows what he is doing. Good luck with that.
Any news about you Ben?
Hello, Ben!
How did it go? I’m having the very same problem right now.
all the best!
Hey i just downloaded 3 episodes of one tv series and just read about it.i dont what to do?i wasnt aware of strict rules.im staying here with my parent for a month.i hope.they dont get any letter.what should i do?
Hi!
I have a problem. I came to Germany 2 month ago, and I was staying with my sister, and I wasn’t aware of the torrent downloads laws and I downloaded sreies and movies. Now she didn’t get any warning letters or at least not to her current address, maybe at her previous address, even though she updated her address with her IPS provider. So she didn’t received any letter as I said but the firm took the money strait from her bank account 650 eouros. Is that possible or legal at all? she went to the bank to ask them to put the money back, but they siad they can’t do anything about it. Any suggestion?
Hello Attila, as mentioned in the post, it can happen that money is taken directly from your account but it is usually a last resort thing. It happens only when many warning letters have been sent and all ignored so it stays pretty rare. Still, yes it is possible. However, if no letters were sent, it might not be legal. Your sister would need to prove that she never received them probably.
I’m curious about one thing: are the Internet providers in Germany required by law to keep logs about the activity of their clients? Where I come from, it is common that hundreds or perhaps even thousands of people connected through one provider share the same IP address. Which means that without the logs, it is pretty much impossible to identify who was downloading at given time.
Hi Tobik. Apparently, most providers are saving the logs between 7 to 30 days after, although it doesn’t seem to be required by law. (Source)
Thank you! As my German is rather rusty, this information was hard to find for me 🙂 I guess that the reason why they do it is simply to cover their back, i.e, so that they can prove it wasn’t them who was downloading.
I was told that if you do not pay by the deadline, or even react immediately by the deadline, in order to give you the time to get paperwork ready and find a lawyer, that you should not panic. Nothing will happen to begin with as they will not sue for at least a year. Is this true?
Hello John. Maybe there is common practice but i don’t think there is defined rule because it’s up to each lawyer company to decide when to react and at which speed. Again, let’s not forget: there is nothing in the law that defines the conditions under which they should do that.
If you received a letter for a couple of movie downloads but you downloaded more than that, do you know if the lawyer can cut a deal with them for one amount and no more letters? It could get super crazy expensive otherwise.
I would say anything is possible because it is a matter of negotiation between lawyers and not a matter of law as far as penalty/fine is concerned. Again; the threat comes from private lawyer practices and not from the government. Both parties want the fastest resolution at the best possible price.
Maybe a stupid question, but what if you act like you never received the letter? I mean they can’t prove you ever received it unless they bring it to you by themselves.
Hello Bat. This behavior would be considered the same as ignoring the letters. It is likely that you would need to prove why you never received them if it ever came to court. Just an opinion though, a lawyer would know.
Hey, what an awesome site!
I was visiting some relatives in Berlin and i illegally made a download. It was “innocent” because I’m from Portugal and the laws are different there (you can torrent but you can’t sell it).
Any idea to make a plea and solve this problem?
Best regards,
kisses