We all have our reasons to turn to illegal download in Germany. For some it’s about binge-watching the latest HBO hit series, for others it’s about getting their hands on a rare 1991 version of the Star-Wars trilogy. Whatever it is, you might have gotten away with it in your home country. However, illegally downloading copyrighted content in Germany is severely condemned by law and is frequently enforced by private law firms who send cease and desist letters.
If you are reading those lines, you are probably holding an Abmahnung letter from a German lawyer asking you to pay for compensation. Do not: panic: this guide will reply to the many questions you have right now.
Here is everything you want to know on how to respond to a warning letter for illegally downloading copyrighted content in Germany.
Caught torrenting & streaming in Germany: TL;DR
What follows a long guide on the topic. Here are the main learnings and action points.
- When using torrent clients, it’s the uploading/sharing to other users on the same node that is punishable by law.
- Private practices have specialized in dealing with copyrighting infringments. They use special technolgoy to identify you, with the help of your ISP. This is permitted is Germany and not very regulated..
- Not all cease and desist letters you receive are real. Some are just scams. Check the authenticity of the letter first.
- The letter will be very threatening, list big numbers and big consequences. This is to pressure into paying right away without asking questions.
- Don’t ever sign and pay right away!
- Instead, use a specialized mediation service to get you out of this situation. They will help you reduce the fine and handle negotiations (in English). Lawyers are also an option but it usually more costly & more stressful.
- Using a VPN in Germany is usually a good idea to avoid this situation in the future.
Read on for more details and feel free to leave a comment if you have a question.
Bastien
Illegal download of copyrighted material in Germany – What you should know:
What am I really guilty of ?
German laws concerning file-sharing are pretty strict and clearly condemn any kind of file sharing activity related to copyrighted content. While both download and upload are condemned by law, it’s in reality the uploading part of the process that will be rewarded with a warning letter. Using services like torrent clients makes you automatically share the file you are downloading. This is why torrent and other P2P clients users receive a lot of letters from German lawyers.
Since April 2017, users of illegal streaming services (also broadcasting of live events) can also get in trouble because of a decision from the European Court of Justice. It established (here) that users of such services are indeed acting unlawfully. However, unlike P2P, it’s very difficult to identify users of such streaming platforms as IP adresses are often not stored by these platforms in the long-term, making the enforcement unlikely. Only premium users can easily identified.
On the document, you might see a reference to the set of laws dealing with copyright infringement in Germany; “Urheberrechtsgesetz” or “UrhG”. The article making it illegal is § 19a UrhG.
Who is responsible and who should pay?
German courts have stated that the owner of the internet access is in theory responsible for any wrong-doings happening on that network. They are responsible for securing it so other people don’t use it to download copyrighted content in Germany. This might bring up tensions if you are living in a WG and it’s not your name on the internet provider’s contract. In that case, the owner can “discharge” the fault onto the real culprit to be cleared of all charges if necessary.
How did they could identify me and find my address?
Those German law firms sending warning letters usually hire specialized third-party services that are scanning P2P nodes and clients, recording IP adresses that are currently downloading illegally in Germany. They are then authorized by law to ask your internet provider in Germany to disclose any information linked to that IP adress. This is how they obtained your private details.
Again, this is why law enforcement is really much more difficult to apply for illegal streaming services users. IP adresses are not stored on servers on the long-run and if the police should request a list, it’s only after a considerable amount of time. Beware however premium users; if you are paying a fee on one of those platforms, your IP will definitely be stored on the server, thereby increasing the risks of getting caught.
If you want to protect your traffic and use all services privately, you can get a VPN in Germany that will hide everything from anyone else. You can use NordVPN for example, which often considered one of the bests out there, especially since streaming works well with it and you connect up to 6 devices with one account (switch to English in the footer if needed).
Do they really have the right to claim so much? Can it really go to court?
There is no clear set of rules that puts a figure for infringements. The figure is entirely up to them within a certain range. We will see later how it is possible to bargain it down a little. Although they do threaten to take this to court, it’s relatively quite rare it happens. It mostly an argument to scare you into paying fast and without asking any questions.
However, make sure to see the difference between the different fees mentioned in this document. There are fees for sending you this Abmahnung, the fine mentioned as repair for their clients (more details on that later in the post). Also note that a law passed in 2013 should limit Abmahnung and legal claim fees to 150€ & 450€ respectively.
Offense repairs on streaming cases are much lower, making it less profitable for law firms to pursue; legal claim fees remain the same as for P2P cases but the fine per film can only be 5 to 10€.
Is this a real German law firm and not a scam? Do they really work with the copyright holders?
Now this is a little tricky because it is true that some scam letters (e.g from non-existing “Kroner & Kollegen” law firm) have been sent around and they are not entitled to represent the copyright holder. However, most often than not, the warning letter for illegally downloading copyrighted content is a real one coming from a real law firm who represents company like Viacom, Sony, 20th Century Fox, etc.
Here are some law firms sending cease and desist letters in Germany (hat-tip to Raychenon.com):
Auffenberg, Petzhold, Witte; Baumgarten & Brandt; Bindhart , Fiedler, Zerbe; CSR; Daniel Sebastian; Denecke Haxthausen & Partner; Fareds; Johannes Rübenach; Kornmeier & Patner; Lihl; Lutz Schroeder; Marcus Meier; Marko Schiek; Negele; Nümann und Lang; Paulus; Philipp Marquort; Rainer Munderloh; Rasch; Reichelt, Klute, Aßmann; Sasse und Patner; Schalast & Patner; Scheuermann,Westerhoff, Strittmatter; Schutt, Waetke; SKW Schwarz; U+C; Vahrenwald & Kretschmer; Waldorf Frommer; WeSaveYourCopyrights; Winterstein; Zimmermann & Decker.
How to spot a fake cease and desist letter for copyright infringement in Germany
Beware of the following signs, they can be pointers. In doubt, always consult with a professional.
- You only get an email: Also this is possible is some other field of law, illegal file sharing cases always come by post.
- It doesn’t come with a cease and desist letter: If it’s only asking for money with obscure legal jargon, it’s worthless,
- Fictitious law firm or no contact details to be found.
- A bank account located outside of Germany.
- The copyrighted material is not explicitly mentioned or described, nor is their client clearly named.
Rule number 1: Don’t panic and don’t send anything back
What is this “Unterlassungserklärung” document and what should I do with it?
Together with the warning letter establishing your identity and the content, there is another document called “Unterlassungserklärung“. This is the German equivalent to a cease and desist letter that the law firm wants you to sign to prove that you recognize yourself to be guilty of the accusations. Do not sign this document and do not send it back! By doing so, you would give more legal ground against you and would have to pay.
How are fees structured? What is the legal basis behind them?
Law firms in Germany are entitled by law to claim compensation on behalf of their clients for the infringement. The total number you might see on your letter is based on 3 different legal concepts:
- Costs based on the cease and desist order (Unterlassungsansprüche)
- Costs based on the actual compensation itself (Schadensersatzansprüche)
- Costs based on processing fees involved in dealing with your case (Aufwendungsersatzansprüche)
Working under the assumption that a signed cease and desist letter will prevent further infringements by the culprit, the law firm will generally only press compensation and reimbursement charges.
Together, these generally amount to around about 1.000€ per file. The processing fees are
calculated based on the compensation and cease and desist charges, while also being regulated by the German lawyers remuneration act (Rechtsanwaltsvergütungsgesetz, RVG). As a rule, the processing fees typically end up in a range included between 100€ & 300€.
Here is a example based on real-life practices from a well known law firm. In most cases:
- The total number is 935,8€.
- 700€ is for compensation.
- 235€ is for processing fees.
Now tell me: what can I do about this warning letter
There are different courses of action you can take at this point and i guess it depends on how bold you are and how good you are dealing with a possibly nerve-racking situation.
1- Pay-up right away
Let’s be honest now: those letters are an attempt at scaring you off and pressuring you into paying the full amount. This is even more impressive for a foreigner that doesn’t understand German completely. You shouldn’t panic and pay-up without asking any questions as there is room for negotiation. After all, you have to remember that it is not the government sending you those letters; the fine hasn’t been set by law.
2- Do nothing
While curling yourself in a ball and hoping that it will go away might not seem like the mature and adult thing to do, this reaction might still have a few arguments for it. Reacting this way is basically counting on the weaknesses of the system; those German law firms are very busy you see. They send hundred of thousands of warning letters a year to the average Joe for illegally downloading movies in Germany. They know very well that they won’t be able to handle each individual case manually so they might no simply follow-up, should you not reply to their first Abmahnung.
Then again, there is also a good chance that you might be part of the chosen ones for whom it doesn’t go away. If they do follow-up, additional legal fees might occur and it can be enforced. This is a risk you take if you pick this option.
Doing nothing is a viable option but it will often back-fire at you
3- Hire a lawyer
They come at you with legal weaponry? It’s then maybe time to gear up with some of your own and get in touch with a lawyer. Judging from the cases i have heard around me and in forums around the internet, this seems to be a popular option. Sure, it’s not cheap but you might in turn save hundreds of euros for negotiating a cheaper fine or even not paying it all.
What a lawyer will do is to send a modified cease and desist letter in your behalf that basically says that you are sorry for what happened but you still don’t recognize that you are guilty and that you won’t do that in the future.
Fees for doing so with German lawyers specialized in copyright infringement cases can vary, but you have to pay costs upfront without any guarantee.
4- Use a mediation service
All options listed before are all valid and should be carefully considered. However, they come with one drawback: you spend a fair chunk of cash, time or stress without any certainty on the legal outcome of your case.
Another option could be to turn to a mediation service like the one provided by Abmahnungshilfe. A platform like this is specializing in reducing the amount of the claim. They work with expert mediators and lawyers in
this field of law. Their offering is really well tailored to foreigners:
- They provide this service digitally, 100% in English.
- It is success-based. This means you only pay something if your case is settled successfully and permanently.
- They check your case for free.
- Their fee is transparent (max 30% of the total savings made on the original claim amount).
It is about finding the right strategy for you, whether that is negotiating a settlement with the law firm or fighting back with a lawyer. As it is success-based and the first check is for free, you can still decide to take one of the other options listed here, after they checked you case. It is worth trying out by using the form on the homepage.
I wish you good luck in fighting against the odds. I hope this post helped you understand your situation. Let me know in the comments if you have questions.
Bastien
Also, if you want to use your internet access as you want, don’t forget you can fully hide your traffic with a good VPN like NordVPN. Considered one of the bests on the market, safe and easy to use, it works well for this kind of use too.
Warning letters for torrenting – FAQ
There are no rules defining the probability that you could get caught, and also no way to tell the delay with which you can receive this letter. Only time can tell.
This post is about torrenting and streaming. I cannot answer about any other means or technologies. Current tools available to law practices to track data transfers is only applicable to torrent nodes and streams right now.
Disclaimer: this post is purely for informative purpose about what to do when caught illegal file sharing in Germany. It doesn’t replace the counselling for a professional attorney. Please make sure you fully understand your situation before taking any action. Better safe than sorry <3 <3 <3.
Also a big thank you to Oliver from the Frankfurt Expat blog, whose post on the legality of streaming helped me fine tune some details of this article. If you are living near or around Frankfurt, check his blog out, it’s a good read to discover the city.
I used this abmahnungshilfe service and was very disappointed with them. I sent them 2 letters I received and they came back with a settlement offer that only included one of the letters. Their communication was very poor, it seemed like automated responses and no one actually looked at the case properly. It feels like a scam that is setup between the law firms who issue the notice and abmahnungshilfe so they both get paid. I would not recommend using this service.
Hey Evan. Thanks for your input. What makes you think it was automated?
When I enquired about the second claim that they missed I got the same message again that I received initially so it was clearly an automated response.
Hello,
i’m from Italy and I went to Germany for around 6 months for my thesis with a mini-job contract. Like others, I’ve downloaded a few movies via torrent without knowing of the consequences. Now my ex roommates received a letter asking for 1000E for illegally downloading one of the movies. Now, i’m planning to use the mediator service mentioned here however i’m very stressed about the fact that only one of the movies I downloaded was mentioned. Can and will they charge me for every one of them? This would be devastating for me honestly, I’m still a student and my salary as a mini-job student in Germany was not much at all.
Hey Filippo. You’d have to ask professionals but: the usual terms of a mediation agreement include that you can not be sued by this company for other movies you might also have downloaded before a certain date. It protects you that way. Hope this helps.
Hi.
I received the letter from the same law office as in your example FROMMER LEGAL, and they ask €935,80 (like in your post).
My question is. I used STREMIO and I don’t think it uploads anything from my computer…
In the past I admit I was using sites like PirateBay where you actually download files (ending up allowing people to upload them from my HDD).
I thing Stremio (even with torrent add-ons) works differently.
I have never filed on my laptop.
Can they still fine me? Can I dispute that detail, of Stremio not actually downloading data but just streaming it??
Thanks for your thorough and well detailed article!
Lorenzo (Munich)
Hey Lorenzo. I can’t really comment on individual technologies and providers. I guess that if it uses torrent to stream, it’s still uploading bits of the files to other users on the same node. This Reddit thread also seems to suggest that you download some of the files, even if temporarily.
Does anybody know how much you can expect to save with a mediation service?
Is there an average. Would I just be saving a few hundred or would it make a significant difference?
Hey Reuben. Hard to tell. Depends on the cease and desist letter, the amount on there etc. But yes in general, mediation makes a different and it goes faster too.
Hey Reuben,
my Name is Anselm and I Co-founded abmahnungshilfe.de and just came across this so I want to answer it. Our statistics say that we save our clients between 40% – 70% of the original amount.
What does it depend on?
On your personal Situation. We allways try to understand each individual. What exactly are the impacts?
1. your personal financial situation: example: a single mom living from a part time jobwill get a better Deal than a high BMW Manager
2. the circumstances: have you downloaded the movie yourself or was it a friend who did it accidentaly?
3. other reasons: there could be millions of other reasons we could use for the negotiation. Last month we helped a family from the Ukrane without any financial ressources and got a 100% discount, negotiating it to 0€
Hope this helps. You can allways try out Service for free, if we are not successfull we do not get paid.
bests
Anselm
Hello Anselm! I just received a warning letter last week and already wrote to you to abmahnungshilfe.de to handle the case, but as the letter arrived on my roommate’s name he is very mad at me and worried for the deadline of payment. But I understand that once you’re in front of the case it stays on hold. My question is, while you are doing the renegotiation is there a chance of receiving more letters from them for not having paid on the first deadline? My roommate is so scared of this case going to court and he thinks that it will remain in his records. Even though I ask you if you could do the renegotiation on my name and you said it was no problem. Should I worry for another letter regarding this case? I think we just couldn’t stand receiving another letter
Hi, my Berlin law firm lost their case in a court in Munich, and are refusing to appeal the case. What can I do? they are scared of losing again and this win for the big American cooperate firm will be used to suppress further action for every case going forward. I need help and some tech activists to combat this. Can anyone help? I can provide the details as this is a court ruling so it is in the public domain. But not in the open. Please respond we have a week before we won’t be able to take action.
Hey Peter. Sorry to hear about your troubles. I have listed all the solutions I know off above. :(. I can’t provide legal help.
Seems to me that this practice of claiming 1000 euros for downloading a movie (or inadvertently uploading during the process) is extortion. I would urge anyone who receives such a letter to resist such demands by considering the following action:
If the law firms are acting as agents for copyright holders this is a civil claim. Damages should be limited to the amount of harm suffered by the holder:
“The infringer is liable for actual damages sustained by the rights holder.” (Meissner and Bolte, a German law firm)
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=cef58d76-21a2-4071-9abd-05b001388494#:~:text=What%20are%20they%3F,is%20five%20years%20in%20prison.
The price of a movie rental would be 1-5 euros. Claiming 50 times the price of a movie would seem to be disproportional to the amount of harm suffered by the copyright holder and arguably extortion.
But you have said that the actual complaint is for uploading, not downloading, a torrent, or part thereof. Does the claim make that specific? Or is it ambiguous?
Claiming damages for uploading is still problematic:
It would be difficult to assess the actual damage of uploading. The price of a movie rental is easy to assess. But the financial harm caused by uploading, especially part of a movie, would be impossible to assess. I would presume a very low base for assessing damage, analogous with a movie rental, and put the onus on the claimant to prove that the claim reasonable.
If I were to receive a letter of demand such as mentioned in the article and comments, I would adopt the following strategy.
1. a. Request an assessment of actual damage and presume that the damage incurred by the copyright holder was in the order of 5 euros.
b. Offer to settle for five euros.
c. Maybe enclose a bank draft for five euros, or transfer a similar amount online to the firm, which they would have to return in order to reject the offer. Provide a short deadline of seven days after which you will presume the offer accepted. It may have no legal effect, but every complication makes your case less desirable form them to pursue.
2. Counterclaim extortion if no actual damage can be shown beyond the presume damage of 5 euros, reminding the person who signed the letter that the maximum penalty for extortion under German law is five years imprisonment.
https://se-legal.de/criminal-defense-lawyer/blackmail-extortion-lawyer-in-germany/?lang=en#:~:text=German%20law%20provides%20criminal%20liabiliy,up%20to%20ten%20years%20imprisonment.
3. Investigate the German data privacy laws and consider a possible claim against the law firm for breach of privacy. I have no idea whether there is anything in this. However, it does seem to be irregular for a law firm to be spying on a private citizen.
In all, I would make every effort to put the accuser on the run, to counter-harass the law firm, waste their time and make it not worthwhile to proceed. If enough people took such action, the persecution of private citizens might cease.
If all else fails, strings of garlic and crucifixes have been known to ward off vampires. But paying up without a fight only encourages an predatory industry.
Good luck.
gb
(not a German lawyer)
Hello, I am an international student, that just received this letter today. Where can I search for lawyers? I am terrified and Idk what to do or how to proceed.
Hey Sergio. Sorry to hear about your troubles. I cannot recommend you a lawyer in particular.
You said that you can pass the fine onto another person who is responsible ( in the case of a wg etc) how can I go about doing this?
Hey J. You can find more info about that in German on this page.
Hello Bastien,
I accidentally downloaded 130MB of a 1GB torrent of a program (I downloaded around 12% of it, but not the whole file). It says there that I did not upload anything though. Should I be concerned? :/
Hello Rafael. I think you can probably answer that question yourself if it’s using those terms, right? 😉
I am not sure, as far as I understood, “uploading” is what really is condemned. I am not fully aware how torrents work though so that is why I was wondering… Could you please confirm?
Well: Torrenting works because every user on the node shares/uploads little bits of the file to others while downloading the file from them too. That’s why it’s so fast. So unless you configured your TorrentClient in a special way, you probably uploaded too.
Hello. Thank you for this post. I have downloaded Bohemian Rhapsody movie (2018) from 20th century fox as a copyright holder. This was in september this year. I was using qtorrent. I didn’t got any letter or email yet, but I am expecting it. I and my laptop are from Bosnia and the internet provider was from one German hospital. I was in Germany for about three weeks. Is there any period of time for the letter to come, how high will the price be and is there any cases that didn’t got in troubles? Thank you very much.
Hey Mahir. I cannot tell you for sure. It all depend if you got caught or not. I cannot do better that than the information I wrote in the post. You know of the possible consequences.
Hi, I got a letter from. Frommer legal, telling me I downloaded a movie. The thing is I was at the airport in Canada when they claimed this to happen, I called the number to request a formal meeting and it was rejected with the excuse “covid time, no one will open for you” the IP provided does not match any of my 2 devices and the downloading time of the movie was 15s, not even in Korea can happen, what can I do ?
Hey Stefano. Sorry to hear about your troubles. On which basis do they claim that? If you were in Canada, someone must have used your internet connection in Germany. FYI downloading time is not relevant: it’s the upload, regardless of the amount of bytes distributed.
Hi Stefano, Hope you are doing good. I’m also in a similar situation here, I have received a letter from Frommer Legal regarding downloading a movie from torrents and have been asked to pay a fine of 1000€. Can you please let me know what action did you took regarding this or how did you proceed further with it.
Thanks!
What action did you take?
Good day Bastien, Trust you are well.
I would like to thank you for such a great post. kindly answer my question if you have any thoughts on this.
Q) I rented an apartment and signed a contract for 3 weeks in frankfurt, the owner has the apartment for rent like airb&b which means there are a lot of people who have access to this Wifi, the owner received the fine and he is asking me to pay for it. I have left Germany but the owner said he will transfer the case to me.
any thoughts?
Hey Omi. You’d need proper legal advice on this matter. The owner would probably have to prove that it was your device that is the culprit, that the incident happened during your stay as well.
Hello , thanks a lot for the information’s. I have a similar problem, but the thing is that someone broke my IP- internet code and used my connection to download movies etc. How can i prove that all the pirate files was not downloaded on my computer? additionally the history of my lap-top is 100% clean
i forgot to mention, i got a fine arround 3.300 euro ….
Hey George. That technical question would be out of league i’m afraid but it might also not make a difference in the end, because you are responsible for securing your internet connection. Sorry about this. 🙁
George, there is no way they will accept your explanation. Best is tell them what happen yourself. If I will you, I will do it yourself. Most lawyers will say, don’t do it yourself, let them handle it. Since when one cannot defend oneself if you are accused of something. All these so call lawyers can do is plead your case and beg for a smaller fine, which you can do it yourself without having to pay the lawyers fees and then the fine. Sometimes the lawyer fees are more than the fine.
Hello! I’ve downloaded some e-books from Zlibrary and only then realized it is a pirating website. Can someone answer my following questions? Answers are much appreciated!
1. Is the website using Torrent file sharing? Which means I’m actually uploading the files at the same time.
2. Am I likely to get fined and has anyone ever get fined streaming/downloading from Zlibrary?
Hi i have a question what if i downloaded a film from popcorn time but not watched It and deleted It
Is there a way to avoid the fine PLS
Hey Matteo. It doesn’t matter if you watched it or not.
Hello Bastien,all this sounds scary,but what if i use a vpn? Will it completely “stop” from a letter coming/be caught? I have a good vpn,many says its good and secure,its also been reviewed from good reviewers,its called Expressvpn,i think you heard of it. But I wanted to ask if i still can be caught or not,im scared.
I also wanted to ask about torrenting, streaming and “Normal” download,which is safer,can you please rank it like this:
1.
2.
3.
Thanks 🙂
Hey Neemia. There is dedicated post about VPNs for Germany. It contains your answer.
I have received a cease & desist from Waldorf-Frommer regarding copyright infringement. Would this be something that could be theoretically covered by liability insurance?
Hey Nathan. No.
Hey Bastien
Thank you for sharing whole lot of information.I also got such letter in 2018 and i hired a lawyer.He looked at it and charged 200 euros and said he will handle it all for me.After 3 this lawyer left my case and then i had to hire a new lawyer.I asked him to write a letter on my behalf which he totally denied and with in a week i got an appointment letter from court.I asked my lawyer again to negotiate with waldorf but he denied again and said “We will fight”.Now i dont have so much to pay court fees and other lawyer fees and double my fine.I had to hire a translator to write me a letter to lawyer to leave my case,then i wrote a court to give me some more time,which court did not accept.Also i wrote Waldorf that i can pay little amount of money.
Its been 2 weeks only i got answer from court but no answer from Waldorf.My lawyer has left my case but i am not sure if he has send information to Waldorf also!!!
I am very scared to go to court and i cant afford to bare so much of fine.I earn only 1200 euros per month and if i have to pay 900 euros plus 400 euros to a lawyer plus court fees.I AM GOING TO BE DEAD.
Hey Ade. Sorry to hear about this. I can’t imagine how much stress you are in right now. You can have you case checked there for free, to get more options.
Thank you for a reply and suggestion.I have filled up my form and have sended it to them.Let’s see if they can help me out.I have been in contact with other lawyers too but all they want to go to court.They dont want to negotiate on my behlaf with Waldorf Frommer.
I am really looking forward for a mail from Abmahnunghilfe.
Thank you once again.
No problem. All the best.
Hi
1.What if u tell tham that u had a guest and he was on popcorn time from his ipad not u . ?
2. What if you have moved permanently from Germany( Im not living in Germany any more) can they still follow you ?
Hey Jojo. 1.The liability is still with the owner of the internet line/contract, but this argument may be used to your advantage in negotiation. 2. I can only imagine that the costs involved in chasing somebody moving abroad would be too great to make it profitable.
Hi,
Is it fine to download ebooks from zlibrary or libgen.rs?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ps. Bastien! Sorry for calling you ben! I did mention my brain is fading…!
Pps. Hmm. Looks like my post didn’t go up. Maybe being scanned first. Just in case here is again:
Hi Ben,
Thanks so much for putting this together.
I had an absolute brain fade over Xmas time and forgot to put my vpn on before downloading bloody paddington 2 (looking for something new for my 5 year old son to watch in lockdown )
My wife receive letter from Waldorf frommer today. Demanding 900 euros.
Have they reduced the size of fees in past years? I remember hearing about 3k or something years ago. Anyway, while I’m glad it’s not that, 900 is nevertheless devastating. And for paddingbloodyton! Aaaargh.
Anyway, my question is regarding the law in 2013 you mentioned about limiting claims to 150 and 450 euros. Do know if they updated that since? And what the name/number of that law is? Have some lovely Richter neighbours we might ask for help but it’d be good to have done some homework first.
Also my first thought before finding your blog was just pay but not sign. But my wife worried that would also leave us exposed to further costs. I guess payment is an admission of guilt….?
Thanks in advance.
Bruce
Hey Bruce. Good luck with this situation. Here is a source, and another here. I updated it in the post as well.
Hello, a while ago I received one of those letters, and after some time I decided to pay. The case didn’t go to court or anything, they were just threatening to do it, I just made a transfer (didn’t sign) anything, the letters stopped to come.
I’m thinking about applying for a settlement permit in Germany, and they mention that even a fine can prevent me from obtaining it, do you know if this kind of thing goes to your record and can prevent me for getting this permit?
Hey Delowak. Please note that what you received from this practice is not a fine. Only public authorities can give you a fine. This is private matter that was handled privately.
Thank you for all the Infos and supporting!
I have a question though on that. Is there any case that the Telefon/ Internet Company of the user who was also sued from the film Company to sue also it’s user? For damages, fines etc.
Hey Stel. Can you rephrase the question? I don’t get it.
Hi there, thanks for the good overview!
Any idea on something like statutes of limitations that apply there?
I received an Abmahnung for events in December 2016… I don’t know where I was in that period, or who had access to our internet in our shared flat around the date.
This all seems outrageous.
Hey Luca. Doesn’t matter. If you own the line, you receive the letter.
Hallo Bastian,
I am a University student and as everything is online this time due to Covid. So my Professor has uploaded videos on Youtube. My question is downloading youtube videos on desktop/ PC is legal in Germany or is it illegal ?
Hey Vishu. I cannot advise you on this. I’m not a lawyer. Downloading copyrighted content when it’s not under the proper license is illegal in general yes.
Hi Vishu. While downloading can be punishable, normally it will go unnoticed, since the fines are low and efforts into finding the culprits are also low. What you surely can expect are the fines for uploading or distributing copyright content. Much more effort is put into finding out the distributers, since the fines are much larger and worthy of all of the effort. If you use a torrent client, you are distributing the content while downloading it, it is how those clients work. Downloading a youtube video from a converter will mostly go without any consequences, especially if the author didn’t claim the video as copyright. SWIM downloaded many copyrighted songs from youtube and never got a fine. For any torreting, SWIM always uses VPN.
Enjoy and stay safe 🙂
Hey, so from what I understood, downloading from file sharing service like Google drive or mega is less likely to be found out compared to P2P? I downloaded some games a while back and I regretted it quite a bit. I deleted them and bought them properly recently. Now I heard about Germany piracy laws. Whats the chance that I’m getting a surprise is the mail?
Hey terrified student. You understood your situation perfectly. Can’t tell you the chances.
thanks!
can i stream football matches in germany? i meant a free website but im using vpn tho.
Hey John. I can’t tell you what you can or cannot do. Streaming copyright content via illegal means is still illegal, even if you use a VPN. A VPN does negate the chances to get caught when properly used.
Hello sir,
I arrived in Germany 2 days ago. I just came to know that a movie has been download from Utorrent app from my mobile. I am actually kind of confused. I actually didn’t download literally anything but when I checked in my downloads it showed that the movie was downloaded from torrent and I don’t know regarding the website . So I later checked whether I have searched for any movie in google history but even in the history there is no information that I downloaded the movie or I searched for the particular movie. what should I do now, should I hire a lawyer if the mail is sent to me. Can I tell them that you can check the google history of the mobile from the date of my arrival. Since I didn’t do it intentionally. will I face any problem while studying. I am student right now
Will it affect my carrier. please do reply sir
Hey Ravendahr. The information contained in this post serves as guidance, any legal advice should be sought after with a lawyer, if you do a receive a letter.
I received such a letter for using a P2P for a few seconds of upload that I terminated when I saw the downloaded file was uploading. So, I have 3 questions:
a. Is 5-10 seconds of upload of a full movie still a substantial claim of infringement?
b. I am a film professor and used the download for a non-commercial use of educational purposes. Is that a defense for using copyrighted material? c. Is my purpose in downloading a clip of a film considered fair use when showing the work to teach film students?
Some background information is that due to COVID, I moved to be closer to my children in Berlin, Germany, from NYC, where I would typically use the university film library to acquire film content, so, in Berlin, without such access, I used other means to acquire film material for pedagogical reasons. Many thanks.
a- Doesn’t matter how short or how little you shared.
b- No idea. I’m not a lawyer and you’d need to check with one. But I doubt it as you could also use librairies here the same way.
Hi, is subtitle upload illegal in Germany? On my PC I have bsplayer installed and haven’t used it for a very long time or to be accurate, since I moved to Germany. Bsplayer has an automatic subtitle upload enabled and after I have used it, did notice that subtitles were uploaded on OpenSubtitles and some more similar services. Could I get a fine for such actions and if I do, can I get to some information about how high would the fine be? We are talking about Kb. Not Mb or Gb…
Hey Vinsanity. I don’t know. Is it copyrighted material?
Really don’t know. Like I said, use bsplayer and with upload you also have a download. I downloaded the subtitles automatically (think also from OpenSubtitles) couple years ago for a movie that’s from the end of the 80s and also not exposed and popular.
Hello, I would like to ask about 4anime.to site.
My 9 year old downloaded 46 videos ( fortysix …) from this site. I was at work and when I came home he gave me the “good news” I cancelled everything. Tomorrow I will go to the internet provider to block as much as possible. He was on a parent controlled account, but I am no IT so maybe there were not enough filters.
Can you please tell what to expect now? Is it illegal are they going to give me a huge bill?
Thanks
Hello. If you get caught, you are liable for your children’s actions. Downloading copyrighted material is always illegal yes.
Hey!
Thanks for the informative article. Helped getting an idea about the rules and law.
I wanted to ask if downloading books from b-ok.org illegal ?
I haven’t yet received any letter it warning as of now. But just wanted to know.
Thanking you in anticipation.
Hey Priya. I can’t advise you on the chances of getting caught on particular website or protocols. I can only tell you if it’s copyrighted material, it’s illegal. This post is about Torrenting and streaming.
Hi!
I was just contacted by my airbnb host in Germany that during our stay at their house in August we downloaded a film while using their internet. They seem scared and threaten with legal action. We live in the Netherlands, however. What do you think our odds are in getting away with it? I feel for my host, as we were totally unaware that a film was seeding on torrent while we were using our laptop. So I wouldn’t want them in trouble, and I know they can “discharge” the amount to the real culprit if they take legal action.
If anyone has a tip, we would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks!
Hey Leyla did you hear anything more about it? I’m in the same situation.
Nice article. I have a question: What if I download using simple file sharing and not torrent trackers? e:x. what if I download from a file sharing site through VPN and do not share >
Let’s just be CLEAR! I’ve been using NORD fucking VPN and have been sued with the 950 e fee for downloading the movie. They had 44s glich in connection and there it goes. Please, be aware of this too.
Aleksandra and how did u continue with the process!? Did u get a lawyer? Almost the same happened to me
Can I watch/stream pornography in Germany?
Hey. Pornography is not illegal in Germany.
you can use tor for secure navigation, but, believe me tor and vpn are not secure specially dedicated vpn stay away
Hi
i have had this letter in 2015 while i was in Germany. I did hire a lawyer and he wrote a modified letter on my behalf. They sent another letter to my lawyer with a reduced fine. By that time i already moved out of Germany (2016). I told my lawyer after that letter that i have moved out of Germany and he said then he will let the WF know that he cannot get in touch with the Client as he moved out of country. and that it, since then no email from my lawyer. Is this good, i see the sometime they come back chasing after 4 years to up to 10 years ?
Thanks
Hey Raj. No idea, your guess is a good as mine.
Hi Raj, Would you be able to share that modified letter after redacting your personal info and kindly send it to me at reeldocfilm@yahoo.com? I would very much like to know what the lawyer says to such a demand. Many thanks!
Hey! This article is very well written and shows only the crucial info! It’s also backed up very well! Thanks.
I got a question: Is IDM (Internet Download Manager) considered legal software? How can I check it up? As far as I know, it’s not a P2P software, and I even received an confirmation about that from their customer’s service. Yet, how can I be sure?
https://www.internetdownloadmanager.com/
Thanks!
Hey Dan. I can’t research and comment on the thousands of softwares available out there. Sorry.
can i download wow in germany to play on warmane Private server??
Hey there. No idea.
Hi,
Thank you for sharing all the information!
I’m a student in Germany and I received a letter two weeks ago with my name on it, somehow they have it.
They named the movie in the paper, which was a shitty movie (now it’s also put me in troubles), 🙂
I always use a VPN (NordVPN), it seems it didn’t help me at all.
I’m not rich and I don’t really know what to do, I ask myself if I’ll be lucky and they won’t bother me anymore.
What will happen if I say it’s not true? How they can really prove it?
What is the period between downloading the film and the warning message
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hi, Benjamin,
If you want to I would recommended you contact them yourself and negotiate a lower fine. Going to a lawyer they will do the same except you have to pay them also.
All these so call lawyers work together. They say don’t do it yourself but let us do it for you otherwise it will be dangerous. Since when if someone accuse you of something, you can’t defend yourself. The so call expert lawyer will just write a letter on your behalf and charge you for it. You know how many lawyers there is in Germany? Too many that’s why they want business. I also was warned abd now have to pay them plus lawyer fees.
So, they found you althought you used a paid VPN?
When you subscribe to a paid membership in a site with the possibility of downloading from the site, is this unifying fear?
Hello! How you do with ads popping up on websites or opening tabs? Activating AdBlock is enough? Now I know I have to delete my torrent before going to Germany. This is scary. What else should we be aware of? You also mentionned using VPN is legal, are they just legal because you have to pay for them? bc if not, it wouldn’t make any sense. Can you recommend us a VPN we can use without problem in Germany?
Hey Rebeca. There is a dedicated post about VPNs this way. VPNs are legal because it’s your right to use proxys to access the internet and hide your use of it.
I am a Hungarian citizen who lives in Düsseldorf. In the last days I get a letter from a law company what includes that I have to pay close to 3000 euros for downloading some movies from a torrent site. I am shocked! Never ever could imagine anything like this can happen, so I desperately looking for advice/solution. We didn’t get any warning or anything before, just a letter with the fact, that I have time until 28th of May to pay.
I would highly appreciate if you could tell me what are my possibilities/options to prevent being bankrupted, where can I go for help! In the moment I am totally unable to pay this amount.
Thank you for your answer in advance,
A. K.
Hi Andres,
These lawyers are like vampires ready to suck you dry. In other countries before you download there will be a warning that if you do it you will have to pay a heavy penalty. But not here. Welcome to Germany where all humans supposed to be free and have all the rights.
I would suggest you contact the German office for public help and they will help you prepare a response at no cost. Don’t go to any lawyer because you have to pay them and they can’t do any better. In any case you will have to pay but not 3K but can negotiate lower, maybe €400
They probably will keep on sending you their shitty letters every other month and it can last up to 10years long. Like I said, going to a lawyer will costs you more money and they can’t help you. Good luck.
Hi,
Can I download a game from website through torrent (qtorrent) ? The website request to be downloaded through this torrent.
Thanks
Hey Ognen. The use of Torrent clients itself is not punishable by law, only the illegal sharing of copyrighted material. A publisher may use torrents as a way to distribute their game if they wish so. Just make sure it’s all legit.
Hallo,
Ein Freund von mir meinte der Download vom World of Warcraft Client wäre per Torrent legal. Jetzt hab ich den Download per Torrent gestartet aber zu spät erkannt, dass es doch illegal ist. Nachdem ich gegoogelt habe ich rausgefunden, dass er urheberrechtlich Geschützt ist. Ich bin der Meinung, dass ich eine Abmahnung bekomme
Maybe you should have written in English?????
English website, English article – German comment – brilliant logic! If you are here and commenting then clearly you speak English. But ill manners and disrespectful attitude is the German way!
First of all, that last sentence was not neccessary + racist/xenophobic, second of all, if this is a website about Berlin, the capital of Germany, you gotta expect others to ask for help in their native language too. Und Christoph Polifke, tschuldigung aber da kann ich dir nicht weiter helfen.
Hello, i’ve got one question. Am i allowed to download a game through client, for example from Blizzard website, the game is absolutely free(no torrent), games such as League of Legends.It is illegal ? Im gonna get fined for that ? Thank you !
Hey Cosmin. This post is about illegal downloads. If you are downloading freely available game directly from the publisher, not a problem! 🙂
if I download a game from google is that illegal like forza horizon 4?
Hello,
Thank you very much for this helpful article! I have received one of those, they claim that I downloaded the torrent and shared it on Popcorn. However, I am pretty sure I did not download the movie but streamed it. Is is a bluff from their side ? If I say that I streamed it, will it be better than saying that someone stole my wifi? Thank you!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popcorn_Time#Functionality You still shared.
hi everyone, I got a letter with 1650 euro fine with some device using my IP address. Can they fine me if this device does not even belong to me and is tracked in another country? can the company even sue me if this device does not belong to me and is someone random passing by and somehow got on my wifi?
Hi. Do you know how long it took for the letter to arrive from the moment you downloaded the film?
Hello,
I´ve received a letter to pay 400EUR for downloading one title. I was at the apartment via Airbnb in Germany and it seems, that the owner of the apartment accused me of doing this as he was the owner of the internet connection. What chances they have to track me/my computer? And also to prove I was really the one downloading the movie? Well, it could be anyone… Does it make sense to reply: Sorry, but can You prove it was really me? Or what do You propose?
Thank You
Hey Leo. I cannot give you legal counselling on how to react. To prove that it was your device, they would also need the MAC address of your device.
Hi. I just received the paperwork from WF for a movie I downloaded. Reading your article, you advise not signing the Unterlassungserklärung and sending that back, but you also provide three options to deal with it. If one chooses to lay the fine but not sign the Unterlassungserklärung, is that possible?
Hey David. It’s certainly possible but i cannot advise you on the consequences of proceeding that way. Better ask a lawyer that.
Hi David, these jerks want your money only. If you pay them without a fight, it will be a blessing for them and they wish everyone will do the same.
What about Youtube Audio Library? They are royalty free music. I am a content creator and i need some audios for my videos.
Hey Nisha, make sure to check the creative commons license before you use them.
Use VPN so your “problems” will go away it is only $6 per month. What to look for: 1. secure communications protocols 2. Use company that is a outside of “The Fourteen Eyes” 3. Choose a service that specifically states that they do not keep logs 4. Fix your DNS Leak, WebRTC Leak, and GEO location 5. Get more familiar with VPN
Hi,
I have gotten one of these famous bills, but I dont live in the country anymore. So right now is my former roomie very concerned.
I have used the ignore method since 2018. He already got his lawyer on it.
I live in Denmark, so the cooperation between the two states are great. But how far is the companies going, do you have an idea?
Hey Guy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Anyone got an update on this? – I am in exactly the same situation.
Same situation here ! Guy what did you do ?
Hi, after reading all these questionare I come to the conclusion that only foreigners get caught or single out. What’s wrong here? I would consider this type of demand as high way robbery. If it’s illegal why don’t they put a warning sign or inform user that if they continue they will be fined. Other country like France if you get caught they first send you a warning letter not to do it again. Why don’t the government put to this type of ripoff. By the way, don’t think lawyers can help you. Sometimes they work together with each other to rip you off.
Hello, what is your experience with plex? If someone else is uploading to the server in the States and I am streaming without downloading? If I use a VPN then I should be okay to use it?
This is helpful thank you very much!
In my case i just recieved a fine from IPPC LAW but the letter is addressed to my ex flatmate(The internet contract is brought on his name and will likely expire after a few months )who have moved to China permanently and I am not in contact with him.So shall I let them know about emigration it just ignore the letters?
Hello, Bastien.
If I downloaded some movie/songs/books via torrent in one country, save it on my laptop, and watch it offline in Germany, can I get caught? If I am not using torrents in Germany. And is it legal to download VPN in Germany?
Thank you!
Hey Lily, i cannot give you techical/legal advice on particular situations. If you haven’t shared any files under a German IP, then you should be fine. To use a VPN in Germany is perfectly legal.
Hi,
i have pretty simple situation and i cant find answer for my situation. I forgot to delete torrent program after coming to Germany, i opened my laptop and went away on 3 min. When i got back, the program was asking me for terms to accept (i didnt accept it) and i think in the background he was already making some sending/receiving. No file was completed or downloaded, I closed the program immediately and deleted him. Is this reason to get huge fine/Abmahnung?
Thank you in advanced.
Hey Sebastian. As mentioned in the post and in the comments. The act of sharing is illegal, it doesn’t matter if the file was successfully downloaded or not.
So did you get fined?!!
Today was my last vacation day in Berlin at my friends house, and stupidly enough I decided to download a movie to see on the flight back. It was only a question of minutes before I shut everything down, cause my friend urged me to close it. But now I’m so scared I’ll get fined! Worst part is, I was using their network. I’ve been reading nonstop all these freak ass cases of people getting fined. Does everyone get fined?!? What the fu…? Now I’m in panic and can’t sleep. All because of a stupid mistake, I don’t even download stuff on a regular basis! I just use Netflix and stuff like that!
Thanks.
Hi i have this problem now about I watch a movie 3 years ago from a web site what popped up automatically from a other site… and I get those letters and I ignore them on beginning I should pay for even not 10 minutes on this website over 800€ and after I get more letters and always come up the price to pay…
I don’t respond and become i silence till I get jello letter that I should pay 1356,34€ !!!
What I should do now because I don’t believe I should pay this amount of money from 10 minutes on site what popped up automatically on my laptop!!!
Like to give you a tip. If you have rec’d a yellow letter that means very likely they will bring you to court. If you contact a lawyer they are happy to help you because they want business and you are going to pay them. Don’t think they are doing you a favor.
My advise to you is you contact them (the law firm that sent you the letters) personally and tell them you don’t earn so much and request them to lower their price. They will probably lower to €450 plus the warning yellow letter €128 and you can request a monthly payment of €30. They will probably ask you to show them your salary. This way you will save the fee for contacting a lawyer costs of another €187 for not doing anything except asking them to lower fine which you can do it yourself. All these lawyers are only care for their incomes and NOT for you. There are like Vultures zooming up in the air and looking for a Prey. There are no solutions to deal with such case and if you check the internet you will find lawyers who are so call specialized in such field and tell you to call them which usually offer free first call and if you do that’s when they get new client. Their advice is not to contact law firm yourself but let them do it. I don’t know if that can actually help. That’s the way they do their business
but if you can call and say you are willing to pay for a reduced amount that is even better instead of waiting for letters every 2 months receiving terrorizing letters and that will last 10 years long. The so call verjährt after 3 years is bulls…h. Don’t think they will let you get away scot free. This is Germany. Other country like France, they warn you first and if you do it again then they will find you. Take this advice from someone who has been ripped off by them lawyers!
Hi Jimmy
What if i left the country forever and they cannot deliver letters to me anymore ? Thanks
Hi. I had some torrent files on my laptop before coming to Germany. Accidentally, I opened Utorrent for a few seconds. Now, I know that it is impossible to know if the Abmahnung will eventually come, but my doubt is that I live in a university dorm. Would the letter come to my landlord or to me?
The internet is provided by the dorm, so I don’t know if they have a way to identify from which room the upload came. I am worried the landlord might be the one that receives the letter and pays for it and only discovers who uploaded later when trying to get his money back. I fear that because I’m only staying for 5 months, so if I receive the letter myself, I will just ignore it, since I don’t think they will try to follow up if I’m not in Germany anymore, but if the landlord pays without warning me about what I want to do, I might have to pay him the full amount back. Do you have any idea how it goes when it comes do uni dorms?
Hey Lukas. Sorry no, i can’t help you about your particular case.
Can you please update on that? I’m moving into university dorms and am quite concerned.
Hi! Is it legal to do a download of an episode or a movie on Netflix app in Germany? Because the app give us the possibility to do this and the file stills only in the app.
Hey Priscila. Yes it is.
U can download if that app is official
I was trying to watch movie and I mistakenly opened a torrent using website. I was watching movie and after 1 min it went whole black screen, I tried for forward still black. Then I realise could be torrent using site and yes it was torrent using site. How much possibility is there to be fined? Could you please help me
Hey Manish. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is so helpful thank you!! We just recieved a hefty fine from WF. We didnt actually watch the film as it was out of sync, stopped it after a minute or so…. any advise on what we should do in this case?
Hey Anna. Whether or not you consumed the media has no bearing on the case unfortunately.
Hi,
How long does it take to receive the warning?
I mean from watching movie to receiving warning letter?
In my case, it took 7 days from the download to the date printed on the letter, plus a couple of days for the letter to go through the postal system.
We received an Abmahnung some years ago and since then, having hired a lawyer to fight the case, Waldorf Frommer tried to take the case to court earlier this year (a “yellow letter”) which we were advised through our lawyer to refuse. We have now received a ‘tax bill’ from WF for the case! Is this a normal part of the intimidating tactics of WF, or something new in your experience?
Hey Felix. They are using countless ways to try to impress guys like you. I don’t know about this one in particular. I would trust your lawyer’s advice.
Hi Filix,
How much is the tax bill? Is it higher than the fine?
I would actually consider myself if I would want to pay them now or wait. Your lawyer would probably ask you to wait until your fine grow larger. Don’t forget your lawyer fee is based on the amount of fine which is 0.5% that means the larger the fine the more money they make. Lawyers here
are like all other business make money regardless how nice or sympathetic they are. Go with your gut feeling. You will have to pay the fine. Welcome to free Deutschland!
Hello,
I have a question concerning this, If i made a friend of mine who is living outside Germany download a copyrighted file through a torrent, and then he uploaded this file to cloud site, for example Dropbox. Am i safe if i downloaded this file from dropbox ?
Thanks
Hey Hadi. This is not my expertise.
Hello Hadi,
This question has brought me to this page actually and finally to your comment. Please let me know if you tried this and worked for you?
Thanks,