Help me: i was caught illegally downloading in Germany

We all have our reasons to turn to illegal download in Germany. For some it’s about binge-watching the latest HBO hit series, for others it’s about getting their hands first on the latest Coldplay album. Some even want to get their hands on a rare 1991 version of the Star-Wars trilogy. Whatever it is, you might have gotten away with it in your home country. However, illegally downloading copyrighted content in Germany is severely  condemned by law and is frequently enforced by private law firms who send cease and desist letters.

If you are reading those lines, you are probably holding an Abmahnung letter from a German lawyer asking you to pay a hefty fine because you were caught in the act. I will ask you not to panic and will reply to the many questions you have right now.

Warning letter illegal file sharing germany

Here is everything you want to know on how to respond to a warning letter for illegally downloading copyrighted content in Germany.

Illegal download of copyrighted material in Germany, the basic stuff

What am really guilty of ?

German laws concerning file-sharing are pretty strict and clearly condemn any kind of file sharing activity related to copyrighted content. While both download and upload are condemned by law, it’s really in reality the uploading part of the process that will be rewarded with a warning letter. Using services like torrent clients makes you automatically share the file you are downloading. This is why torrent and other P2P clients users receive a lot of letters from German lawyers.

Since April 2017, users of illegal streaming services (also broadcasting of live events) can also get in trouble because of a decision from the European Court of Justice. It established (here) that users of such services are indeed acting unlawfully. However, unlike P2P, it’s very difficult to identify users of such platforms as IP adresses are often not stored by these platforms in the long-term, making the enforcement unlikely. Only premium users can easily identified.

On the document, you might see a reference to the set of laws dealing with copyright infringement in Germany; Urheberrechtsgesetz” or “UrhG”. The article making it illegal is § 19a UrhG.

Who is responsible and who should pay?

German courts have stated that the owner of the internet access is in theory responsible for any wrong-doings happening on that network. They are responsible for securing it so other people don’t use it to download copyrighted content in Germany. This might bring up tensions if you are living in a WG and it’s not your name on the internet provider’s contract. In that case, the owner can “discharge” the fault onto the real culprit to be cleared of all charges if necessary.

How did they could identify me and find my address?

Those German law firms sending warning letters usually hire specialized third-party services that are scanning P2P nodes and clients, recording IP adresses that are currently downloading illegally in Germany. They are then authorized by law to ask your internet provider to disclose any information linked to that IP adress. This is how they obtained your private details.

Again, this is why law enforcement is really much more difficult to apply for illegal streaming services users. IP adresses are not stored on servers on the long-run and if the police should request a list, it’s only after a considerable amount of time. Beware however premium users; if you are paying a fee on one of those platforms, your IP will definitely be stored on the server, thereby increasing the risks of getting caught.

If you want to protect your traffic and use all services privately, you can get a VPN that will hide everything from anyone else. You can use NordVPN for example, which often considered one of the bests out there, especially since streaming works well with it and you connect up to 6 devices with one account (switch to English in the footer if needed).

Do they really have the right to fine me so much? Can it really go to court?

There is no clear set of rules that puts a figure on the fine you have received. It might be 900€ per illegally downloaded song in Germany or 2000€ for downloading a movie in Germany. The figure is entirely up to them. We will see later how it is possible to bargain it down a little. Although they do threaten to take this to court, it’s relatively quite rare it happens. It mostly an argument to scare you into paying fast and without asking any questions.

However, make sure to see the difference between the different fees mentioned in this document. There are fees for sending you this Abmahnung, the contract penalty & the fine mentioned as repair for their clients. Also note that a law passed in 2013 should limit Abmahnung and legal claim fees to 150€ & 450€ respectively.

Offense repairs on streaming cases are much lower, making it less profitable for law firms to pursue; legal claim fees remain the same as for P2P cases but the fine per film can only be 5 to 10€.

Is this a real German law firm and not a scam? Do they really work with the copyright holders?

Now this is a little tricky because it is true that some scam letters (e.g from non-existing “Kroner & Kollegen” law firm) have been sent around and they are not entitled to represent the copyright holder. However, most often than not, the warning letter for illegally downloading copyrighted content is a real one coming from a real law firm who represents company like Viacom, Sony, 20th Century Fox, etc.

Here are some law firms sending cease and desist letters in Germany (hat-tip to Raychenon.com):
Auffenberg, Petzhold, Witte; Baumgarten & Brandt; Bindhart , Fiedler, Zerbe; CSR; Daniel Sebastian; Denecke Haxthausen & Partner; Fareds; Johannes Rübenach; Kornmeier & Patner; Lihl; Lutz Schroeder; Marcus Meier; Marko Schiek; Negele; Nümann und Lang; Paulus; Philipp Marquort; Rainer Munderloh; Rasch; Reichelt, Klute, Aßmann; Sasse und Patner; Schalast & Patner; Scheuermann,Westerhoff, Strittmatter; Schutt, Waetke; SKW Schwarz; U+C; Vahrenwald & Kretschmer; Waldorf Frommer; WeSaveYourCopyrights; Winterstein; Zimmermann & Decker.

Rule number 1: Don’t panic and don’t send anything back

What is this “Unterlassungserklärung” document and what should i do with it?

Together with the warning letter establishing your identity and the content, there is another document called “Unterlassungserklärung”. This is the German equivalent to a cease and desist letter that the law firm wants you to sign to prove that you recognize yourself to be guilty of the accusations. Do not sign this document and do not send it back! By doing so, you would give more legal ground against you and would have to pay.

Cease and desist letter file sharing germany

Cease and desist letter for Downloading Deadpool (source: Quora.com)

Now tell me what can i do about this warning letter

There are different courses of action you can take at this point and i guess it depends on how bold you are and how good you are dealing with a possibly nerve-racking situation.

1- Pay-up right away

Let’s be honest now: those letters are an attempt at scaring you off and pressuring you into paying the full amount. This is even more impressive for a foreigner that doesn’t understand German completely. You shouldn’t panic and pay-up without asking any questions as there is room for negotiation. After all, you have to remember that it is not the government sending you those letters; the fine hasn’t been set by law.

2- Do nothing

While curling yourself in a ball and hoping that it will go away might not seem like the mature and adult thing to do, this reaction might still have a few arguments for it. Reacting this way is basically counting on the weaknesses of the system; those German law firms are very busy you see. They send hundred of thousands of warning letters a year to the average Joe for illegally downloading movies in Germany. They know very well that they won’t be able to handle each individual case manually so they might no simply follow-up, should you not reply to their first Abmahnung.

Then again, there is also a good chance that you might be part of the chosen ones for whom it doesn’t go away. If they do follow-up, additional legal fees might occur and it can be enforced. This is a risk you take if you pick this option.

Doing nothing is a viable option but it can back-fire at you

3- Seek legal counselling

They come at you with legal weaponry? It’s then maybe time to gear up with some of your own and get in touch with a lawyer. Judging from the cases i have heard around me and in forums around the internetz, this seems to be a popular option. It’s a good compromise between costs, stress & time spent dealing with a fine for illegal file sharing in Germany. Sure, it’s not cheap but you might in turn save hundreds of euros for negotiating a cheaper fine or even not paying it all.

What a lawyer will do is to send a modified cease and desist letter in your behalf that basically says that you are sorry for what happened but you still don’t recognize that you are guilty and that you won’t do that in the future.

Fees for doing so with German lawyers specialized in copyright infringement cases can vary anywhere between 50€ to 250€. It’s really worth it in a lot of cases. Remember that the first initial phone call or meeting is always for free by law, so it never hurts just to ask.

I wish you good luck in fighting against the odds. I hope this post helped you understand your situation.

 

Also, if you want to use your internet access as you want, don’t forget you can fully hide your traffic with a good VPN like NordVPN. Considered one of the bests on the market, safe and easy to use, it works well for this kind of use too.

Disclaimer: this post is purely for informative purpose about what to do when caught illegal file sharing in Germany. It doesn’t replace the counselling for a professional attorney. Please make sure you fully understand your situation before taking any action. Better safe than sorry <3 <3 <3.

Sources: 1, 2, 3, 4

Also a big thank you to Oliver from the Frankfurt Expat blog, whose post on the legality of streaming helped me fine tune some details of this article.
If you are living near or around Frankfurt, check his blog out, it’s a good read to discover the city.

99 Comments

  • Reply mariadelsol 19/08/2017 at 01:59

    Hi
    what if downloading of skype one film? I upload to my sis I live in latinamerica and she is in Germany I just sent a disney movie for my niece links are only 30 days uhhh thanks for answer me.

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 19/08/2017 at 14:17

      Hi Maria. Skype conversations cannot be tracked that way. I don’t think it should be an issue.

  • Reply D. Jil 06/08/2017 at 11:56

    Hi, thank you so much for the information, I just found out about it and I downloaded some things. I don’t know if I got caught, I really hope not, but I wanted to know in any case. If I get caught.. how much time till I receive the letter? I used a hot sopt that I paid with my credit card (not german card) and I didn’t put an adress. How will they know where to send the letter?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 06/08/2017 at 22:57

      Hi there Anglik. There is no way to know if and when you will receive a letter. If you didn’t put an adress i guess you are fine.

  • Reply avel 03/08/2017 at 10:08

    i accidentally left a torrent on when coming from my country for barely 1 min and then switched it off immediately i have no idea if i was tracked but i want to know is if i was do they leave the wifi not working immediately

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 06/08/2017 at 22:51

      This question is really not well put together. I don’t understand it.

  • Reply Manda 02/08/2017 at 06:33

    Hi!
    Thank you so much for posting this.

    I just received the exactly same letter like on the picture. But the format seems slightly different. In the letter doesn’t state any information of how much I should pay.
    And I got it because of Popcorn Time.
    May I know what did u respond when you have it? And how much you paid?
    Thanks!

  • Reply Flavio 27/07/2017 at 00:13

    Hello I have also received the famous letter of 915€ for each movie.. 2 in fact.. Two movies that I had in my popcorntime app. And I didn’t even saw them.. I had the app open. I download the movies yes but not in Germany… In Portugal. And there you don’t have these problems… And that is the worst thing for me.. Because in the letter the time the download was made was from 12:11:16 to 12:11:47… So cmon… 29sec? I was connect 29sec I didn’t download anything.. (In this country) and I have to pay that amount?
    What you guys think? If I go to a Lawyer I can still have a chance to pay a very small amount? Because even it is 200€ is not cheap for me..

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 27/07/2017 at 10:06

      Hi Flavio, as mentioned in the post, downloading is not a problem but the uploading part is. During those few seconds, you probably shared some bits of data to other users (it’s still a Torrent app). Possible decisions for you to take are also already listed in the post.

  • Reply Scott 26/07/2017 at 16:13

    In a nut shell I am staying in a guest house and a few weeks ago I used Popcorn time, and watched 3 or 4 movies. My landlord received a letter a couple of weeks ago and this was signed by the landlord and I agreed to pay the fine. On the letter it was signed that we must never do it again, which I have not since receiving the letter. The problem is I could receive more letters for the 3 or 4 movies I watched on Popcorn Time, is it possible that these other potential letters could be written off as I have honoured the initial letter and have not used Popcorn time since?

    The next problem I will have is I will not have enough money to pay these fines if they make me pay for the remaining downloads.

    Thanks

    Scott

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 27/07/2017 at 10:04

      Hi Scott. In my opinion it simply depends whether or not you will get caught again and if you do; whether or not those movies are intellectual properties represented by the same law firm which caught you in the first place. You have made a deal with only this firm in particular and this deal won’t probably matter to other law firms.

  • Reply Ahmad 25/07/2017 at 05:24

    i downloaded cracked copy for Windows 7 from site like mediafire and installed the windows copy with out problems
    am i in trouble ?

    I come from Morocco and i can there download whatever i want and this is new thing to me in germany

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 25/07/2017 at 10:23

      Hi Ahmad, if MediaFire is a direct download platform, then it seems that even though it’s still illegal, there is no chance you can get caught.

  • Reply NTT 24/07/2017 at 08:25

    I have almost finished downloaded an episode of GoT (1.2gb) and at 90% I noticed I have my VPN offed. Now I am scared :s Will I immediately get a fine after this one stupid mistake 🙁
    What is the normal period for them to send a letter/fine to you?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 24/07/2017 at 16:13

      Hi there. As mentioned elsewhere in the comments; time period is difficult to predict; too many factors evolved.

  • Reply Kyu 18/07/2017 at 21:49

    Hi,Thank you so much for your post!!!!
    I was mostly writing signature and sending back Unterlassungserklärung!!!
    In my case,,,,, My Airbnb guests downloaded illegal file(drama),and they already admitted it,(besides I was not in Germany at that time)
    so I sent the letter to the company (WALDORF FROMMER) to explain my situation.
    Then they sent me the new bill again that was discounted 560Euro t0 400Euro.
    I wondered if I still had a responsibility to pay the fine(even though it is obviously that I didn’t download it).
    So I called them and asked,but they said “You have to pay the fine because you’re the owner of the connection,after that you can ask the guest to pay the cost!The deadline is next week.If you don’t send back “Unterlassungserklärung”,we also can make it(the fine) higher.”
    So I was really upset,,,, (After that I found this web site!!!Thankfully!!!)
    Now I’m planning to consult at “Verbrauchezentrale”.If so ,I can’t send back “Unterlassungserklärung” by the deadline.
    Should I ask them to extend the deadline ???Or Can I just leave it???
    How do you think???

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 19/07/2017 at 11:06

      Hi Kyu. The problem with your case is that this firm is definitely going to follow-up on you now that you have shown concern. Remember that they try to pressure you. It’s better to get help qualified help for that Verbraucherzentrale, even if you can’t send anything back before the deadline. The “fine” they send you can still be negotiated even after that deadline. (Please have someone professional confirm this asap).

      • Reply Kyu 24/07/2017 at 21:24

        Thank you so much for your reply.
        I asked the” Verbrauchezentrale” when I could have an appointment.
        They have available hour for my case only on Monday (9:00~13:00).
        And I got appointment 3weeks later.(Because I have important appointments on next and next next Monday ,for my extending VISA and my baby-delivery )
        I’m worried about if it is too late.
        If you have another suggestion in addition to consulting at Verbrauchezentrale, I’d like to know that.(For example ,which kind of specialist should I consult with?Do you know some public office or service that I can consult about it?)

        *I really thank you and your website.Without it,I couldn’t try to do anything and I really had no idea!!!!!Thank you again !!!!!

  • Reply Ali wehbe 17/07/2017 at 10:25

    Hello,

    Thank you for this article. I have received the famous fine asking me to pay 915 Euro for downloading a movie. If I ignore them and they choose me to continue with the case, will I receive an alert before there backfire ? if yes what’s the delay .

    Thank you

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 17/07/2017 at 10:49

      Hi Ali. There is usually a second warning but i cannot guarantee it. I also cannot let you know what the delay would be.

  • Reply Danish sheikh 05/07/2017 at 04:38

    Is chances for me getting busted is higher??
    Coz i dowlaod some songs and rest get automatcally download because of internet speed may be. Still If i will be responsible for it coz i downloads had been made with my handset??
    Or nothing would happend because both us is innocent as neither me had any idea about the laws as i’m tourist here for some weeks only nor she had any idea about downloads.

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 05/07/2017 at 10:00

      Hi there. It’s impossible to know if you were busted or not. You will soon know if your friend receives a letter. If she does, as mentioned in the post, you can take the blame on yourself via a lawyer’s letter. The fact that you both had no idea doesn’t change anything if you are caught.

  • Reply Balazs 04/07/2017 at 14:22

    Hi, I came back from abroad and realized my torrent client was still on when starting my computer… with around 10 latest movies in seed line.
    I have shut down the net in like 5 minutes… and cleared my computer from the torrent software. Do you think this 5 minutes would be enough to track me down, or am I on the safe side? I never intended to share here in Germany…
    Thanks.
    B

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 04/07/2017 at 16:42

      Hi Balazs. Hard to say. My opinion is that the chances are very slim you’d receive a letter, but they still exist. You will just have to wait and see.

      • Reply Balazs 05/07/2017 at 13:53

        Yeah, I hope. Thanks. Do you have experience with private servers?
        (My files were shared within a closed community of my country)
        And could you confirm my belief (based on previous cases) that 0.000 ratio means no data was shared back/uploaded which means I can be relieved from this frustration? 🙂 Thank you

        • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 06/07/2017 at 21:04

          I don’t have any experience with private servers but in my opinion, a closed community is safer than open torrent nodes.

  • Reply Daniel 02/07/2017 at 01:20

    Hi
    I was recently visiting a friend in Germany – he’s 87 years old and currrently poorly in Hospital.
    Whilst at his house my British laptop appears to have been using UTorrent in the background and sharing 3 episodes of 24 Legacy. I already have these episodes legally at home on my TIVo, but just wanted to watch them on the plane on my way to Germany.
    My friend is really worried as he’s received a letter from Waldorf Frommer suing him for a total of around 3,000 euros.
    I 100% accept this blame, but don’t see the issue as I already have the episodes on my TV at home?
    Surely there should have to be some warning or block on UTorrent first?
    I’ll contact a solicitor as recommended above, but what would you guess I should expect the outcome of this to be?
    I want to take this away from my friend as he is too poorly to have to worry about thisZ
    Thanks

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 03/07/2017 at 09:54

      Hi Daniel. You can take the blame on yourself for sure. A lawyer will help you in doing that, while reducing the fine down. Concerning the fact that you already own the original material; i don’t think it will make a difference since you still shared and distributed an illegal copy of these episodes via your torrent client.

    • Reply SOHO 21/07/2017 at 17:01

      Hi Daniel, I am in a similar situation. On a recent visit to Germany I stayed with a friend. My phone has seeded two movies on a P2P that were downloaded in my home country. None of us were aware of this until the bill arrived. She has got a huge bill of 1681 Euros. She is a student with heft student loans and I do not want her to feel burdened. Were you able to sort it out? Were you able to reduce your liability or had to pay original demand? Any insights on how you dealt with it will be helpful.

  • Reply Gunjan 26/06/2017 at 23:00

    Hi
    I heard from my friend that watching a online football cricket match and movie are now illegal in Germany. online streaming is now illegal ?? does he right?? and what is P2P nodes and client ??

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 28/06/2017 at 09:33

      Online streaming has been considered the same as file sharing by a court during a case in Germany. As for the rest: about p2p.

      • Reply ddddd 30/06/2017 at 17:49

        Can you send a reference that back this info up.
        Is it a new rule? I never heard of people getting busted for streaming so far

        • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 03/07/2017 at 09:50

          It is a relatively new court decision from the EU Court, you can read more about that here and here.

  • Reply Lavi 23/06/2017 at 10:03

    Hi, very informative article, thank you!
    But I still have two questions, first what if I downloaded the files from a public wi-fi in a public place, second what if I received the files in a privet e-mail or on my own drive (e.g. google drive), will they check these files too?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 25/06/2017 at 12:23

      Hi Lavi. Just think about whether or not it is a P2P protocol or not and you will have your answer.

  • Reply filip 20/06/2017 at 09:25

    i have a question. what happens if i stopped downloading in the middle of downloading? (sorry for bad english)

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 20/06/2017 at 10:09

      Hi Filip. If you downloaded via Torrents, then your IP was still broadcasted over the P2P network and you might still get a letter.

    • Reply Richard 06/07/2017 at 10:52

      I have the same problem. But I canceled download at 0.3% I will have to pay? Because i arrived to Germany only yesterday.

  • Reply Rishi 10/06/2017 at 23:53

    Hello , I am new to Germany and just learned that downloading is illegal. My question is, what happens if someone sends me an illegally downloaded songs on whatsapp ? thanks

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 12/06/2017 at 09:41

      Hi Rishi. It’s still an illegally downloaded song but nothing would happen since the conversation is encrypted.

  • Reply Aubrey 04/06/2017 at 21:10

    Hi there – we’ve just received a letter from Waldorf and co re a few downloads. We’re with the military here in Germany until 2018 or so and our PC is used by visiting family members from the states…should we even both with a lawyer? thanks so much – very informative article, btw!

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 05/06/2017 at 12:47

      Hi Audrey. So this is a “public” PC in the military base available to all?

  • Reply James Maclachlan 02/06/2017 at 19:12

    Thanks for writing this. It’s great to hear from others!

    I was recently at my girlfriends Munich apartment, and her flat mate got a letter as a result of me watching 1 episode on popcorn time 🙁

    It has become a heated debated, and I’m trying to take blame, and take persecution away from the owner. We have contacted 4 lawyers between us, but the German language barrier is so confusing

    My question is, can I take blame, and pay for the full extend of the court, and not let him pay the 1600 euros and in doing so accepting guilt. Can he pass the blame to me, if I write a letter accepting guilt ?

    Thanks

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 05/06/2017 at 12:40

      Hi James. Yes this is totally possible but you should still probably use a lawyer to reduce that fee by a lot. Good luck.

  • Reply Mintu kumar 28/05/2017 at 12:15

    Hi ,,

    I have become before yesterday a letter amount of 915 euro. If I ignore it then what can be happen? And if i take a anwalt against them then what can be happen ? I need help please anybody guide me.

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 28/05/2017 at 21:06

      Hi Mintu. Please read the post again, all answers and options are listed there.

  • Reply Miguel 11/05/2017 at 20:47

    Hi, i have the same problem with the letters. My question is, once you have replied with the modified cease and desist, what is the next step??
    They send you more letters and you have to ignore them or what?
    The thing is that I went to the lawyer with the free first consulting and she already wrote us the letter so we didn’t have to pay anything.
    So in case I am right and with the modified cease and desist letter is enough, i wouldn’t have to pay anything, right
    Thanks in advance

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 12/05/2017 at 10:01

      Hi Miguel, yes, usually a modified cease and desist can be enough but sometimes the law firm might try to reply again. It depends on each case.

      • Reply Miguel 12/05/2017 at 20:17

        Thank you so much, in the case they send another letter should I go to a lawyer again and they would make a deal or should i ignore them?

        • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 14/05/2017 at 12:10

          Hi Miguel. It’s entirely up to you. Can’t tell you what to do.

    • Reply Miko 03/06/2017 at 17:08

      Hello Miguel, would appreciate if you can please refer to me the lawyer you consulted? I have received the same letter and and in search of a law firm which can assist me in going through this which won’t charge me an arm and a leg

    • Reply Miko 03/06/2017 at 17:17

      Hello Bastien, this by far is the most short and clear blog I have come across. But hope your followers/readers can also share the law firms/lawyer they consulted? I have received the same letter and and in search of a law firm which can assist me in going through this which won’t charge me an arm and a leg. Thank you by the way for sharing all these info. really helpful!

  • Reply Leo 30/04/2017 at 23:33

    Is a reputable VPN provider bulletproof in Germany? I’m going on an exchange program later this year and I do a lot of “pirating” from various sources.

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 01/05/2017 at 10:30

      Hi Leo. VPNs are good ways to protect your privacy. They work as well in Germany as anywhere else.

    • Reply Lavi 23/06/2017 at 09:56

      So did the VPN trick work for you? Cause I’m thinking of the same think but a friend of mine said that it won’t help you(

  • Reply Max 28/04/2017 at 10:21

    I need legal advice for this in Berlin. Can you recommend a lawyer?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 29/04/2017 at 10:12

      Hi Max. This is an interesting request but i don’t have any recommendation. I will make research about this to be able to make recommendation in the future. Sorry about this and good luck.

  • Reply Amelia 16/04/2017 at 00:40

    Hello Bastien,

    Thanks for the info! My sister (17) is currently making an exchange year in Rostock (we are from Costa Rica). She watched a movie with her host family via Popcorn Time, and nobody told her that she wasn’t suppose to do that. Last week, her family received the infamous letter. Her host mom sent a reply saying that she told my sister that watching movies on the internet was illegal (she didn’t tho), and that she was not going to pay the fine because it wasn’t her fault, and that my sister should do it. Her host mom wrote our adresse in Costa Rica in the letter, meaning that the firm should contact her via that address, so my question would be, what do you think we can do? should we wait until the firm answers that letter? or wait until they try to contact us in Costa Rica? or should we hire a lawyer via internet to help us solve the case? (btw, she made a typo in the address, and our mail system really sucks, so the letter has a 98% possibilities to get lost somewhere)

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 17/04/2017 at 10:39

      Hi Amelia. Unfortunately, i am not in capacity to advise you on the decision to make. It sounds like you understand what’s happening and what the risks are for the situation though. The host mum did right by unloading the fault onto her sister with this letter. It’s also probably fair to say that it’s an extra hassle for a lawyer company to pursue someone outside of the EU, compared to other cases. Waiting to see if the letter comes might be a good tactic, but again, this is just an opinion. You should look for professional advice if you have doubts about this.

  • Reply Lars 05/04/2017 at 22:20

    Hi. A VPN Service Provider can help to stay anonymous in this case ?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 06/04/2017 at 12:02

      Yes, a good VPN can help Lars.

  • Reply mangal 30/03/2017 at 11:59

    Hi, i have also received a letter from Waldorf Frommer containing that i have downloads illegal movie on torrent , and the funny think is the download time is just 16 seconds and i real dont know who really download the movie and they fine me 915 euro.
    the question is can be the IP address prove to clime on me ?
    the have send me my IP address and some movie hashes could be this prove !
    and i decided to not pay is it a good idea coincidentally i am also a refugee

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 30/03/2017 at 12:42

      Hi Habib. Please read again the post, it has already most of your answers. the IP address is sufficient ground in Germany yes. The fact that you are refugee plays no role in this.

  • Reply Saif 27/03/2017 at 00:14

    Hello,
    I would like to ask you about 2 things:

    1- I have downloaded a song from a normal user in youtube on my iphone using a normal app, is that ok?
    2- How many days do I need to wait until I receive the letter ? Even if you do not know the exact duration give me the approximate time please.

    Thank you so much for your time 🙂

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 27/03/2017 at 10:04

      Hello Saif. It’s hard to say for sure but my opinion is that as long as there is no sharing/uploading, you are probably on the safe side and exposed to minimal risks. As for your 2nd question, i cannot reply as it depends on practices and cases. It should happen within a few weeks.

  • Reply Mickey 26/03/2017 at 18:08

    Hello,my name is Mickey and i am here in Germany one year,i have watched some movies online just streaming nothing like download or share or upload just straming via google on some websites no app no torrents etc.Is there any risk i m taking???Danke!!

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 27/03/2017 at 10:01

      Hello Mickey. The risks around streaming are also discussed in this post. Please refer to it.

  • Reply Jennie 16/03/2017 at 09:30

    Hey, I’m currently visiting my cousin in Germany and I watched some movies and to shows last few days on popcorn time. I didnt turn on the VPN and noticed a warning that “you are being monitored”. And I deleted the app at once. She has not received any letter yet. Is that possible that she won’t receive any letter in the future?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 16/03/2017 at 12:54

      Hi Jennie. She may or may not receive letters in the future, there is no way for you or me to be able to tell right now. Wait and see.

  • Reply Simon 02/03/2017 at 17:03

    Thanks so much for this page which we found in a panicked 10 minutes after receiving the letter and helped us clarify our options brilliantly.

    • Reply Naz 01/08/2017 at 09:30

      Hi Simon
      could you share your experience with us? what happened then?
      Regards,
      Naz

  • Reply Shelley 27/02/2017 at 15:43

    Hi,

    Do you have any insights on sites like tvmuse where you can stream TV shows after they have aired?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 27/02/2017 at 16:08

      Hi Shelley. Please refer to the part of the post where streaming is addressed to find your answers.

  • Reply Ed Sherrington 26/02/2017 at 17:02

    I came back from the UK and I didn’t realise a movie was in my torrent programme and it downloaded when I got back to my flat. My question is it definite that I will receive one of these letters?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 26/02/2017 at 19:51

      Hi Ed. It is not definite but there is a fair chance you will receive one. Fingers crossed.

    • Reply Zsofi 30/05/2017 at 13:42

      Hi Ed! Same thing happened to me, did you receive a letter in the end? Thanks

  • Reply Prathibha 24/02/2017 at 13:05

    Hi,

    I received the above mentioned letter 2 days back for downloading a movie through torrent. where the downloading duration is just 30 seconds. It has been just 3 weeks that i have come to Germany for studies and i have no way of paying such a hefty amount. please help me.. i speak very little German too.
    Need your assistance on this.

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 25/02/2017 at 14:44

      Hi Prathibha. I’m sorry that you are in this situation. I am not a lawyer so i cannot offer further assistance than what is already in the post. I suggest you get in touch with one if you are worried.

  • Reply Ben 21/02/2017 at 23:23

    Hi

    My wife has a friend in Germany who has received one of these letters. Apparently he has asked a lawyer who said that he has the following options (other than paying up):

    1. Ignore it
    2. Reply denying any wrongdoing – this should elicit a counteroffer
    3. Get someone who lives outside Germany (but within Europe, apparently) to declare that they made the downloads while visiting. Supposedly the law firm will not try to pursue anyone outside Germany.

    My wife’s friend is considering option 3, with my wife making the declaration. This doesn’t sound like a great idea to me, and I’m concerned it could leave my wife exposed to possible issues (we are still in the EU for now, after all). Do you have any thoughts on this?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 22/02/2017 at 09:30

      Hi Ben. That’s an interesting take on the issue from this lawyer. My knowledge wouldn’t allow me to challenge his recommendations. In my opinion though, option 2 and 3 are rather similar because instead of your wife’s friend replying, your wife is replying by saying that she didn’t know and will never do it again, also making a counter offer. Anyway, the lawyer is a lawyer so i guess he knows what he is doing. Good luck with that.

    • Reply Alex 03/05/2017 at 23:23

      Any news about you Ben?

  • Reply Maj 18/02/2017 at 16:50

    Hey i just downloaded 3 episodes of one tv series and just read about it.i dont what to do?i wasnt aware of strict rules.im staying here with my parent for a month.i hope.they dont get any letter.what should i do?

  • Reply Attila 08/02/2017 at 20:06

    Hi!
    I have a problem. I came to Germany 2 month ago, and I was staying with my sister, and I wasn’t aware of the torrent downloads laws and I downloaded sreies and movies. Now she didn’t get any warning letters or at least not to her current address, maybe at her previous address, even though she updated her address with her IPS provider. So she didn’t received any letter as I said but the firm took the money strait from her bank account 650 eouros. Is that possible or legal at all? she went to the bank to ask them to put the money back, but they siad they can’t do anything about it. Any suggestion?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 09/02/2017 at 09:55

      Hello Attila, as mentioned in the post, it can happen that money is taken directly from your account but it is usually a last resort thing. It happens only when many warning letters have been sent and all ignored so it stays pretty rare. Still, yes it is possible. However, if no letters were sent, it might not be legal. Your sister would need to prove that she never received them probably.

  • Reply tobik 06/02/2017 at 21:45

    I’m curious about one thing: are the Internet providers in Germany required by law to keep logs about the activity of their clients? Where I come from, it is common that hundreds or perhaps even thousands of people connected through one provider share the same IP address. Which means that without the logs, it is pretty much impossible to identify who was downloading at given time.

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 07/02/2017 at 10:37

      Hi Tobik. Apparently, most providers are saving the logs between 7 to 30 days after, although it doesn’t seem to be required by law. (Source)

      • Reply tobik 07/02/2017 at 21:13

        Thank you! As my German is rather rusty, this information was hard to find for me 🙂 I guess that the reason why they do it is simply to cover their back, i.e, so that they can prove it wasn’t them who was downloading.

  • Reply john 27/01/2017 at 19:30

    I was told that if you do not pay by the deadline, or even react immediately by the deadline, in order to give you the time to get paperwork ready and find a lawyer, that you should not panic. Nothing will happen to begin with as they will not sue for at least a year. Is this true?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 27/01/2017 at 19:52

      Hello John. Maybe there is common practice but i don’t think there is defined rule because it’s up to each lawyer company to decide when to react and at which speed. Again, let’s not forget: there is nothing in the law that defines the conditions under which they should do that.

  • Reply Silly Me 27/01/2017 at 19:13

    If you received a letter for a couple of movie downloads but you downloaded more than that, do you know if the lawyer can cut a deal with them for one amount and no more letters? It could get super crazy expensive otherwise.

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 27/01/2017 at 19:32

      I would say anything is possible because it is a matter of negotiation between lawyers and not a matter of law as far as penalty/fine is concerned. Again; the threat comes from private lawyer practices and not from the government. Both parties want the fastest resolution at the best possible price.

  • Reply Bruce Wayne 26/01/2017 at 20:55

    Maybe a stupid question, but what if you act like you never received the letter? I mean they can’t prove you ever received it unless they bring it to you by themselves.

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 27/01/2017 at 19:40

      Hello Bat. This behavior would be considered the same as ignoring the letters. It is likely that you would need to prove why you never received them if it ever came to court. Just an opinion though, a lawyer would know.

  • Reply Ana J. 13/01/2017 at 18:08

    Hey, what an awesome site!
    I was visiting some relatives in Berlin and i illegally made a download. It was “innocent” because I’m from Portugal and the laws are different there (you can torrent but you can’t sell it).
    Any idea to make a plea and solve this problem?

    Best regards,

    kisses

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 16/01/2017 at 12:36

      Hi Ana. German rules will apply to your case (and your friends’s too, by extension) even though you are from Portugal and acted without knowledge of the law. So the scenarii and solutions mentioned in this article are valid too.

  • Reply Bjorn 05/01/2017 at 19:16

    Hi.
    Im searching for a lawyer to help with this, but Im having some trouble finding a good one. I have read several places that there are loads of lawyers working for Waldorf Frommer and will only screw you over. Any suggestions to which company to use?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 06/01/2017 at 13:48

      Hi Bjorn. That’s a very good question but i haven’t put time into this. Maybe you can tell us what your search uncovered with a new comment in the future?

  • Reply Teo Nguyent 29/11/2016 at 15:01

    Hi.
    Thank you for the post. Very informative and helpful. It took some stress away. I’m in the process of hiring a lawyer. Do you know how long I have to reply to the letter?

    • Reply Bastien - Settle in Berlin 29/11/2016 at 19:11

      Hi Teo, thanks for leaving a message. It’s usually mentioned on the letter itself when they expect a response from you. However, if the deadline is near, it’s usually to add even more pressure on you.

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